Mustang Dyno comparison.
May 15, 2008, 10:13 AM
#31
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It's more like an off-roading excursion than a drag race.
I had to put knobbies on before I raced!
I also found another track in my area that let me get away with running some mid 10's.
It's not much better than 42 though......although I did get a 1.64 60ft on Nexan crappy street tires. 
I had to put knobbies on before I raced!
I also found another track in my area that let me get away with running some mid 10's.
It's not much better than 42 though......although I did get a 1.64 60ft on Nexan crappy street tires.
Last edited by SloRice; May 15, 2008 at 10:16 AM.
May 15, 2008, 10:19 AM
#33
God i would love to see all these high HP Evo's going down the track together!
Sorry for getting off topic......
May 15, 2008, 10:29 AM
#35
FWIW, I've spent many hours on not only the Buschur Mustang Dyno, but also a local Mustang Dyno that was just installed and calibrated by Mustang. As a matter of fact, he was here while I was tuning. I was tuning the OKIX car and KNEW what it had made on the Buschur Dyno.
....I stop for a moment and MUST say this... I'm biased towards David and his parts and abilities, but not to the point to compromise my integrity and honesty. No one is worth that to me.
Now, as I tuned Tony's car, I would call DB and ask what he thought of our numbers. I was told by the 'calibrator' who knew David very well, and his dyno, that it was calibrated exactly like Davids. I was expecting a little higher numbers and felt very strongly that our local dyno was reading lower than the Buschur Mustang. I continued to tune, re-tune on many occassions, each time comparing to what David saw with same mods. Finally, we took the car to Ohio just prior to last years shootout. David first offered me a Guinness, (I think to loosen me up), then said "Let's throw Tony's car on the Dyno, I want to see what it does on our dyno". Of course, the challenge was laid down. I said sure. We pulled it straight out of the trailer, warmed it up and David strapped it down. Some of you remember this, but there are some who don't know about this entire story. DB asked me, what's it going to make? I said I think it'll do about 430-435 (based on my previous tunes on the local Mustang). First pull was 3rd gear and it made 417 I think, but I didn't know at the time it was 3rd gear. I said, "That's a little low, it should be higher." Then DB held up 4 fingers to Daniel. That meant 'go to 4th gear', then made another pull. It made 430 on it's second pull, no tuning, nothing different than my original tune. I knew that the car should/could be at about 440, but I had lowered my expectations when 'Confronted with DB and what my expectations were'. As most of you know, we went to the track the next day, ran a 10.87 at 128mph. The reason for this story is that I had been on both Dyno's, calibrated by Mustang and I feel very comfortable that there was at most a 10whp lower reading on Davids than what I would have seen locally. It's also hard for me to get involved in all of this 'SINGLE DIGIT NUMBER' at a given moment on a dyno pull. I don't see any other cars showing 445 whp running 10.61 at 130+ mph. The number is interesting, but not much more. I see cars claiming 500+ horsepower not even close to running in the mid 10's. I realize that a lot of it has to do with weight, 'dialing in the launch', driving, etc. But still, the bottom line is, with a low 445 whp on the Buschur Dyno, it takes at least 15% more on another dyno to even come close to getting the same results. The track is the best indication of true power and USING it. I've always stood by the fact that the dyno should be used to safely tune a car and see what it's relative results are, compared to other cars on the same dyno under similar conditions.
The Buschur Mustang Dyno isn't the standard that all others should compare to, it simply is the Dyno that can prove it's results by getting the best results with the lowest wheel horsepower reading. It's easy to compare. Make a pull on any dyno with a beginning rpm of 3000. Stop at 7000. Look at your average whp/wtq for the pull. Compare that to a pull made on Buschur's dyno that has the same averages (or similar) and then compare the times. EVERY TIME the Buschur dyno'd car will be quicker and have higher mph than any other dyno. Check it for your self. It's just a fact. Our average on the green was 386 when we ran the 10.61. David was 373 when he ran 10.89 on street radials, we were 359 when we ran the 10.87 on QTP slicks. Bobby Koenig ran 10.92 when his car dyno'd at 356 average. Absent these same rpm/whp/wtq dyno charts, the only place to get a comparison is the track. A PEAK number doesn't mean anything. I'll take our 445 and be happy. Just my .02 cents on how I've been able to compare two exactly the same Dynos, 1000 miles apart and then compare the results to actual track results. Pretty damn close if you ask me.
....I stop for a moment and MUST say this... I'm biased towards David and his parts and abilities, but not to the point to compromise my integrity and honesty. No one is worth that to me.
Now, as I tuned Tony's car, I would call DB and ask what he thought of our numbers. I was told by the 'calibrator' who knew David very well, and his dyno, that it was calibrated exactly like Davids. I was expecting a little higher numbers and felt very strongly that our local dyno was reading lower than the Buschur Mustang. I continued to tune, re-tune on many occassions, each time comparing to what David saw with same mods. Finally, we took the car to Ohio just prior to last years shootout. David first offered me a Guinness, (I think to loosen me up), then said "Let's throw Tony's car on the Dyno, I want to see what it does on our dyno". Of course, the challenge was laid down. I said sure. We pulled it straight out of the trailer, warmed it up and David strapped it down. Some of you remember this, but there are some who don't know about this entire story. DB asked me, what's it going to make? I said I think it'll do about 430-435 (based on my previous tunes on the local Mustang). First pull was 3rd gear and it made 417 I think, but I didn't know at the time it was 3rd gear. I said, "That's a little low, it should be higher." Then DB held up 4 fingers to Daniel. That meant 'go to 4th gear', then made another pull. It made 430 on it's second pull, no tuning, nothing different than my original tune. I knew that the car should/could be at about 440, but I had lowered my expectations when 'Confronted with DB and what my expectations were'. As most of you know, we went to the track the next day, ran a 10.87 at 128mph. The reason for this story is that I had been on both Dyno's, calibrated by Mustang and I feel very comfortable that there was at most a 10whp lower reading on Davids than what I would have seen locally. It's also hard for me to get involved in all of this 'SINGLE DIGIT NUMBER' at a given moment on a dyno pull. I don't see any other cars showing 445 whp running 10.61 at 130+ mph. The number is interesting, but not much more. I see cars claiming 500+ horsepower not even close to running in the mid 10's. I realize that a lot of it has to do with weight, 'dialing in the launch', driving, etc. But still, the bottom line is, with a low 445 whp on the Buschur Dyno, it takes at least 15% more on another dyno to even come close to getting the same results. The track is the best indication of true power and USING it. I've always stood by the fact that the dyno should be used to safely tune a car and see what it's relative results are, compared to other cars on the same dyno under similar conditions.
The Buschur Mustang Dyno isn't the standard that all others should compare to, it simply is the Dyno that can prove it's results by getting the best results with the lowest wheel horsepower reading. It's easy to compare. Make a pull on any dyno with a beginning rpm of 3000. Stop at 7000. Look at your average whp/wtq for the pull. Compare that to a pull made on Buschur's dyno that has the same averages (or similar) and then compare the times. EVERY TIME the Buschur dyno'd car will be quicker and have higher mph than any other dyno. Check it for your self. It's just a fact. Our average on the green was 386 when we ran the 10.61. David was 373 when he ran 10.89 on street radials, we were 359 when we ran the 10.87 on QTP slicks. Bobby Koenig ran 10.92 when his car dyno'd at 356 average. Absent these same rpm/whp/wtq dyno charts, the only place to get a comparison is the track. A PEAK number doesn't mean anything. I'll take our 445 and be happy. Just my .02 cents on how I've been able to compare two exactly the same Dynos, 1000 miles apart and then compare the results to actual track results. Pretty damn close if you ask me.
May 15, 2008, 10:35 AM
#36
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The car does have a severe 02 housing leak though, two bolts are completely missing at this point and you can hear the leak. It is after the turbo and will have NO effect what-so-ever on the power at WOT and fuel trims from the factory ECU do not work at WOT.
I do believe you (Nick) that your dyno is set up how it was from MD. For whatever reason though it reads considerably higher than ours. I also now you have new software, a customer was at your place before the new software for dyno work and called me and told me his numbers were to high. He was at your place again after the new software and his numbers were back in line with what he had in the past.
I only posted this as a comparison. As I say "It is what it is."
Dan did tell me he was happy with your tuning and the car was strong as hell, as he said. I did not bring up your tuning or post any AFR graphs. That is not the point of my post.
My dyno is open to you anytime if you'd like to bring something here to dyno. I would be willing to dyno my own car first so there is no worrying about anything being changed just for "you". I know your answer is "no" to my offer, I am sure you are as busy as I am. I can't go over there to your place either.
The car you dyno'd at 620 whp would have to trap atleast 143 mph to back up those numbers. If you compare it to my car it would have to trap 146. Looking at the combination of parts used on the build (other than the turbo I am unfamilar with) I say no way will that happen on straight 93.
Neither of us have "hallway monitors" to check on what either of us is doing or if we are both using 93 octane or what other tricks might be going on. For all the rest of you (observers) you have to just read all this crap and go from there.
Dan did tell me he was happy with your tuning and the car was strong as hell, as he said. I did not bring up your tuning or post any AFR graphs. That is not the point of my post.
My dyno is open to you anytime if you'd like to bring something here to dyno. I would be willing to dyno my own car first so there is no worrying about anything being changed just for "you". I know your answer is "no" to my offer, I am sure you are as busy as I am. I can't go over there to your place either.
The car you dyno'd at 620 whp would have to trap atleast 143 mph to back up those numbers. If you compare it to my car it would have to trap 146. Looking at the combination of parts used on the build (other than the turbo I am unfamilar with) I say no way will that happen on straight 93.
Neither of us have "hallway monitors" to check on what either of us is doing or if we are both using 93 octane or what other tricks might be going on. For all the rest of you (observers) you have to just read all this crap and go from there.
I don't think 143 is unreasonable. It should do quite well. Now with the summer comming, I see the 138-140 trap being more realistic.
Hallway monitors are nice, but a dyno "number" is the least of both of our concerns as the workload in the shop takes precedence.
People on this forum and others need to take the number with a grain of salt. If they can't then its their problem. It only becomes ours or yours when you have to "prove" that a setup works just as explained and promised.
You have confidence in your product(s) and so do we. One day this BS will be behind us and we can focus on just having fun again.
Until then....
May 15, 2008, 10:38 AM
#37
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If you really look at the mods of these cars and other shops you will find that most of them do NOT have twin pumps. In the next few weeks however we are going to solve that problem, so that we can "catch up"
May 15, 2008, 10:39 AM
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May 15, 2008, 10:41 AM
#40
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We were going to do it for the cost of fluids. No labor just to help him out.
Dan can attest to that, its just that we literally didn't have the time with him having to get to work.
When he comes back it will be fixed.
Last edited by DTM; May 15, 2008 at 10:49 AM.
May 15, 2008, 10:44 AM
#41
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what criteria ( or info) are you using to claim that a mustang dyno is a "True hp" reading dyno? does ford, dodge, chevy, nissan, ect use a mustang dyno set up exactly the same as buschurs dyno? I dont know, thats why im asking. what dyno did mitshubishi use to get there claimed whp numbers? wouldnt that be a " True hp" reading for the evo community to base all dyno reading from?
Dan's car would have GAINED the same amount of power regardless of the dyno. the difference is just in the numerical value. DB's dyno is no different than a Land and SEA POS. Nor is ours. Its a tool for us to do our job a little more efficiently.
May 15, 2008, 10:45 AM
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There isn't such a contraption. The only way to truly know how WELL you have done thru your mod path is to get differential readings of before and after dyno results, along with track times to prove the effectiveness of the products being installed.
Dan's car would have GAINED the same amount of power regardless of the dyno. the difference is just in the numerical value. DB's dyno is no different than a Land and SEA POS. Nor is ours. Its a tool for us to do our job a little more efficiently.
Dan's car would have GAINED the same amount of power regardless of the dyno. the difference is just in the numerical value. DB's dyno is no different than a Land and SEA POS. Nor is ours. Its a tool for us to do our job a little more efficiently.
May 15, 2008, 10:46 AM
#43
It required the turbo to be taken out of the car and the gasket replaced. Someone had put in a cheap ebay or housing and composite gasket instead of a good stock one. The composite gasket literally got burned thru and disappeared. There was a little sliver left, not allowing even a bolt to be threaded in to help the cause.
We were going to do it for the cost of fluids. No labor just to help him out.
Dan can attest to that, its just that we literally didn't have the time.
When he comes back it will be fixed.
We were going to do it for the cost of fluids. No labor just to help him out.
Dan can attest to that, its just that we literally didn't have the time.
When he comes back it will be fixed.
I was just wondering why no one fixed it (of course paid by the customer).
May 15, 2008, 10:52 AM
#44
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At the 50 degree mark we were seeing at the track, the car can do it. But as the summer months and humidity comes now we aren't expecting to break 140. I'll be happy with 138-9 mph.
Damn Joe was happy that he ran 132 missing gears and a 1.8 60'
Damn Joe was happy that he ran 132 missing gears and a 1.8 60'
May 15, 2008, 10:59 AM
#45
Those averages/results are only good for the Green turbo, since the spoolup is so critical to AVERAGE numbers, but still a good overall comparison. As long as the same turbo is used for each comparison, the results should be a good indication of 'comparative dyno power' to track results.