Cosworth M2 and MR 02 Housing got 1 extra HP????
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: MA
I think these cams (M2's) were designed to broaden the usable power band more so than increase peak HP. The M3's are probably a little better for making more peak HP. That's my conclusion cause the shop that did the install for me (DSG) is awesome and the guys are skilled experts. I would say that AMS also has the same expertise, I wouldn't be blaming any shops or Cosworth in this case.
Last edited by No.9; May 22, 2008 at 06:32 PM.
Just wanted to chime in here. I am the mechanic that did the work on the car.
I saw the dyno charts and yes, your peak was up only one horsepower but across the board, the car picked up more power. Not nearly what I would expect though.
To clarify:
The hotside was not removed to do the O2 housing. The entire turbo assembly was removed (manifold to factory O2 housing) and the housings were swapped and the assembly was replaced.
The head was not removed to do the springs, retainers, seals and seats. This was done with the head still on the motor.
I also thought it was weird that each cam came in a different box. I assumed that the MIVEC cam was probably machined at a later date (exhaust cam is probably the same as an 8) and possibly in a different box. The really odd part was the bolt that holds the cam position sensor on the exhaust cam bottomed out prior to tightening completely. I ended up removing 1/8" from the bolt to get it to tighten properly.
I can assure you the work was done properly and professionally. I am as interested as you are in finding out why the car is not making power.
I saw the dyno charts and yes, your peak was up only one horsepower but across the board, the car picked up more power. Not nearly what I would expect though.
To clarify:
The hotside was not removed to do the O2 housing. The entire turbo assembly was removed (manifold to factory O2 housing) and the housings were swapped and the assembly was replaced.
The head was not removed to do the springs, retainers, seals and seats. This was done with the head still on the motor.
I also thought it was weird that each cam came in a different box. I assumed that the MIVEC cam was probably machined at a later date (exhaust cam is probably the same as an 8) and possibly in a different box. The really odd part was the bolt that holds the cam position sensor on the exhaust cam bottomed out prior to tightening completely. I ended up removing 1/8" from the bolt to get it to tighten properly.
I can assure you the work was done properly and professionally. I am as interested as you are in finding out why the car is not making power.
We buy direct from cosworth and thats how that one set came to us, they are a few months old and might be from when they started to change over to all blue plastic boxes instead of the white cardboard boxes. If you would like to contact cosworth so they can tell you the same, contact Ken over at cosworth. Here is his info,
Ken Anderson
Sales and Marketing Manager
Performance Parts
Cosworth, LLC
3031 Fujita Street
Torrance,Ca 90505 USA
Ph. 310 534 1390 x 423
Fx. 310 534 2866
email: ken.anderson@cosworth.com
email: sales@cosworth.com
web. www.cosworthusa.com
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Bel Air, MD
the knotches on the end of the cam dont align right on the first version of the cam ( the blue packages) and they have to b drilled out almost any place can do it...cosworth knows about this
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From: Bel Air, MD
sorry bout the late response but i got the same cams in the blue packaging and when i called ams (in MD) they wouldnt even install them...and told me to send them back to get the second version of the cams which is NOT in the blue package....everything is fine now but this is a problem that cosworth knows about and they should replace them for u for free if u let them know or maybe even nolimit well replace it for u
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 126
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From: MA
You still haven't painted the trunk dex!?
Last edited by No.9; May 22, 2008 at 06:32 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 126
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From: MA
To the OP, it does look like you picked up some decent mid-range power from looking at your dynograph. 
Peak whp #'s don't mean **** without having a meaty powerband throughout... They're just nice for bragging rights.
*** We should have a new set of #'s listed down in our sigs that denotes maximum power/area under the horsepower curve over a given 3000 rpm period (i.e. from 4k to 7k for smaller turbos, and 5k to 8k for bigger turbos). This would be so much more relevant than peak #'s. ***
Peak whp #'s don't mean **** without having a meaty powerband throughout... They're just nice for bragging rights.
*** We should have a new set of #'s listed down in our sigs that denotes maximum power/area under the horsepower curve over a given 3000 rpm period (i.e. from 4k to 7k for smaller turbos, and 5k to 8k for bigger turbos). This would be so much more relevant than peak #'s. ***
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 590
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From: Chi-Town
Ok so i picked up the car today, and it feels strong throughout 7800 rpms. Feels like i picked up more power than the dyno graph says. So i really cant say it feels the same.
First of all i would like to thank Ivan for the excellent work on the car. Everyone at AMS seems to be real educated on these 4G63's. (Odviously LOL)
I can't blame AMS for a possible bunk Exhaust cam, i brought them the product.
I'm not blaming Chris at NoLimit Motorsports either, he gives the best deals, and he is a great buy to deal with also. Thanks Chris.
I'm blaming COSWORTH!!!
Santiago was a great help for the duration of the car being fixed. He is the guy to talk to!
As of right now i'm going to leave the car as it is, i mean i just spent alot of money, so i can't afford to pull the exhaust cam out then send it back to Cosworth then put the new one in. I'm just going to have to deal with it for now. I'm sure all of you guys with Cosworth M2 cams are wondering if they got a bad cam too. (Only the people that ending up with no gains) Well i don't know what to tell you, maybe these cams really aren't that good. Maybe i'll never know. I'll tell you this, i'm never buying Cosworth Cams again! When AMS is done with their cams i will be using theirs. Sorry if anyone is disappointed that i didn't spend more money on figuring this out.
As for AMS, they will still receive all of my work for as long as i own my Evo!
First of all i would like to thank Ivan for the excellent work on the car. Everyone at AMS seems to be real educated on these 4G63's. (Odviously LOL)
I can't blame AMS for a possible bunk Exhaust cam, i brought them the product.
I'm not blaming Chris at NoLimit Motorsports either, he gives the best deals, and he is a great buy to deal with also. Thanks Chris.
I'm blaming COSWORTH!!!
Santiago was a great help for the duration of the car being fixed. He is the guy to talk to!
As of right now i'm going to leave the car as it is, i mean i just spent alot of money, so i can't afford to pull the exhaust cam out then send it back to Cosworth then put the new one in. I'm just going to have to deal with it for now. I'm sure all of you guys with Cosworth M2 cams are wondering if they got a bad cam too. (Only the people that ending up with no gains) Well i don't know what to tell you, maybe these cams really aren't that good. Maybe i'll never know. I'll tell you this, i'm never buying Cosworth Cams again! When AMS is done with their cams i will be using theirs. Sorry if anyone is disappointed that i didn't spend more money on figuring this out.
As for AMS, they will still receive all of my work for as long as i own my Evo!
Last edited by YzBrad99; May 22, 2008 at 07:17 PM.