Lets look at things from a different prospective.


Lets just eliminate driving from the picture.

Lets just say you have an internal combustion engine powering a generator. You are using gasoline to power the engine and you using the generator for electrolysis of water to create HHO. The engine is making just enough power to run the generator and no more. The generator is producing as much electricity as it can for electrolysis. Electrolysis is creating as much HHO as it possibly can.

~entering fantasy land~

Lets say you can inject a small amount of the HHO produced into the engine and it is a perfect substitute for gasoline. The power produced by the HHO is the same as gasoline and there is no effect other than reduced gasoline consumption. If this was true, you could step the amount of HHO injected into the engine and use less gasoline... or even run the engine completely on HHO and use NO gasoline what so ever.... Basically you would have a motor running a generator consuming nothing but water. Even better would be a surplus of HHO that you could store for later use..... or even surplus energy that the engine produces to say.... move a car......

~leaving fantasy land~

The above statement is NOT THE CASE!!!! First, you can not produce enough HHO with the electricity you are making with the generator to exclusively run the engine. Second, the HHO does NOT have the same amount of energy potential as gasoline. As you inject HHO in the engine, your power production goes down. This means the generator is not making as much power. This means the HHO production is less......... downward spiral.........

 

Wait?

You mean to tell me that the 3-5L/min gas production these cells claim to make isn't enough gas to account for the energy needed to account for the 50% change in fuel economy that they claim???

I've feel so deceived...

Fantasy land...that's where my girl keeps telling me I'm living...I now have proof I don't live there as we don't have cars that run on water here.

 

ok, i recently met a guy that made a system for his truck... it WORKS... there would be lawsuits and all kind of stuff if it didnt... so you are telling me, that the guy i know is a liar and his gas mileage coincidentally went up after using the system??? that is proof there...

you are not comparing hho to gasoline, you should be comparing the output of the hho to the taken energy from the extra load on the alternator...

now seriously, if your car can go 20 miles to the gallon how much gas are u using per rev??? not alot huh??? so if you think about the miniscule amount of HHO produced compared to the miniscule amount of fuel used its not as bad as it seems...

but its whatever, i now have proof that someone has improved gas mileage using this setup... it can be done, im about to go to school so i dont really have time to do this on my car, but there can def be a horsepower gain using this... i dont believe you are substituting gas with HHO, but actually adding it on top of the same amount of gas, therefore having to use less throttle to attain the same speed... even if the gain of power from the hho minimally outweighs the loss of power it is still an increase... the only people that discredit this method are the people speculating... not the people that have used it and have had it work...

 

Met a local today that has HHO generator on his truck. His gas mileage was 17 before. He is now getting 32 mpg. They work. The simple truth is HHO in very small quantities acts like a catalyst in the combustion chamber.

Anyone he wants to throw you fancy calculations on how it cant work simply does not have good knowledge on the subject. They haven't tried it. end of discussion if you ask me.

 

No, you missed the key perspective that we are trying to get across. You are not getting any appreciable energy from the hydrogen gas. END OF STORY. It takes more energy to break apart the water then what you get out of it in the combustion chamber. There is NO arguing this FACT.

Read my posts, I've full explained a logical way for this to improve fuel economy. Improving efficiency is the ONLY way it's going to make a difference.

This could be done by improving the combustion efficiency and having the hydrogen allow you to run significantly leaner. Put two and two together...

The cars gain nothing with the addition of the hydrogen gas alone.

They lean the car out with an O2 mod, and suddenly they pick up fuel economy.

Now, is the car getting better fuel economy from a tiny bit of hydrogen gas? Or is it getting better fuel economy because it's running a hell of a lot leaner because the ECU has been lied to with an O2 mod?

The benefit of the hydrogen appears to be that typically, you can't run all that lean on straight gasoline without running into misfires and poor driveability. If the hydrogen gas allows lean A/Fs. Then it should be quite apparent where the benefits are coming from.

 

03whitegsr, I am not going to debate you.
A. you havent tried it.
B. you have theories and some math you think is correct, but you are close minded to new discoveries. yeah I know its not new. HHO was discovered 200 years ago.
C. the internal combustion engine is less than 25% efficient. most of the lost energy is lost through the exhaust as heat. the small amounts of hho being injected lower exhaust temps dramatically.

here are some links you might learn something from. since this thread popped up I have done maybe 40 hours of research on this subject and those related to liberating energy from water. I collected the best videos that will save enormous amounts of time clicking on useless vidoes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME (jap 100% water car 1.21)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKSE...eature=related (jap water car 120mph van 3.03)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veAaY...eature=related (water to fuel cars 2.50 100 mile on 4oz.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGg0ATfoBgo (burn saltwater using radio waves 2.56)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B8sr...eature=related (burn saltwater par 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW_LQ...eature=related (australia 100% water bike 10.56)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk...eature=related (burn water with plasma spark demo 2.26)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWQE6...eature=related (10.36 stanly meyer sytem explained, 100% water car) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8F44...eature=related (6.08 stanly meyer running his car on water for first time USING 10 WATTS HHO generator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnPak...eature=related (mini stan meyer generator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRm8y...eature=related (1.09 water splitter runs car on 100% water, plamsa spark, stanly meyer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be-vZ...eature=related (bingo fuel reactor ? massive HHO ? .38)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCel...eature=related (home generator. power your house for free. 4.07)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2nG...eature=related (1.59 fueless heater 170% efficient. yes more energy out than in...water)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDeXT...eature=related (6.30 overunity generator.free energy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zXya...eature=related (.47 magnetic engine 300hp!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGRsQ...eature=related (6.55 energy coverup WATCH THIS n-machine 500% efficient)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U (1.19 water power gun)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9Nvb...eature=related (plasma spark, cool music 4.15)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLUeG...eature=related (cold fusion at home 9.39)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXyJr...ature=related( Solar breakthrough 3.48)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt5z8...eature=related (electric car that charges itself? 6.20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXZak...eature=related (panacea explantion of water cars 10.53)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlrxu...eature=related (vapor carbs. all these patents were bought by car manufactures and never used.)

stanly meyer vidoes are all over the place. there is at least an hour of good videos on him alone. his HHO generator was 1700% efficient. the patent office did not want to grant him his patents because (like 03whitegsr) they had knowledge on how electrolysis works and said its impossible to run a car on it. he proved in front of them his process worked. producing massive amounts of HHO on very little current. .5 amps. he was granted the patents after they saw in person .
another must watch series is "war against cold fusion"

 

Hoax or not? 40% guaranteed?


http://www.goturtlepoop.com/

 

Meyer's claims were never independently verified, and in 1996 he was found guilty of fraud in an Ohio court.

Sunday Times Innovation 1 Dec. 96 (http://www.sunday-times.co.uk)

End of road for car that ran on Water

American court finds inventor of water-powered car is guilty of fraud.
Report by Tony Edwards

It appears to be the end of the road for maverick inventor Stanley Meyer and
his water-powered car after a recent American court verdict.

The car was a wonderful, if unlikely, dream while it lasted, offering a
pollution-free future powered by a limitless source of energy. But the
dream was shattered when Meyer was found guilty of fraud after his Water
Fuel Cell was tested before an Ohio judge.
It is rare for an inventor to be prosecuted for an invention that does not
work, but Meyer's problem was that he had been selling "dealerships",
offering investors the "right to do business'' in Water Fuel Cell tech-
nology in anticipation of the day when water would power anything From
domestic boilers to cars and aircraft.
But recently two suspicious investors could not wait for that day to dawn
and sued Meyer to get their money back.
Meyer defended, maintaining his long-held claim that the Water Fuel Cell was a truly
revolutionary invention that could split water into its two constituent
gases of hydrogen and oxygen far more efficiently than conventional
electrolysis. The secret, he said, was to "resonate" electricity at a very
high voltage through water and so "fracture" the hydrogen/oxygen molecular
bond. This, he claimed, opened the way for a car which would "run on wat-
er", powered simply by a car battery. The car would even run for ever since
the energy needed to continue the "fracturing" was so low that the bat-
tery could be recharged: from the engine's dynamo.

Meyer claimed to have adapted a 1.6-litre Volkswagen Dune Buggy to run on
water. He replaced the sparkplugs with "injectors" which, he said, sprayed
water as a fine mist in a "resonant cavity" where it was bombarded by a
succession of high-voltage electrical pulses. He claimed this instantly
converted the water into a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that could be
combusted in the cylinders, driving the pistons just as in an ordinary
petrol engine.
One of the experts due toexamine the car was Michael Laughton, professor
of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London,
but he was not allowed to see it. "Although Meyer had known about our
visit weeks in advance, when we arrived he made some lame excuse about why
the car wasn't working, so it was impossible to evaluate it," said
Laughton.
However, the one thing Meyer had built that appeared to work was his Water
Fuel Cell, and it was this device that the Ohio judge called as evidence in
the recent lawsuit.
The cell had been the centrepiece of Meyer's sales pitches. It was a
transparent cylinder of water inside which was a core of stainless steel
electrodes. When plugged into an electrical supply,the cell bubbled away
merrily, producing apparently copious amounts of gas that Meyer ignited
through a welding torch.To the layman it was an impressive performance and
hundreds of small investors signed up, but it did not impress three expert
witnesses in court.
They decided that there was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and
that it was simply using conventional electrolysis.
Meyer was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay
the investors their $25,000 (£15,000).

 

Here is a guy that will PAY YOU A MILLION DOLLARS if you can demonstrate at least 25% fuel savings with an HHO system. LINK

 

Thats a funny post. Guy doesnt have the million dollars to give any winner. And each entry has to pay $5000 dollars.

Now Thats a scam!!!

 

I cant resist.

If this statement were true,

How is it there are car manufactures that want to sell us hydrogen powered cars? obviously they have hydrogen to sell for these cars ?

I am pretty sure they are getting their hydrogen from water. If your statement was true, it would cost too much to make this hydro. they wouldnt make any profit.

 

He didn't say anything about COST. The fact is that the energy your engine produces to turn the alternator harder to make the electricity to make the HHO is more than the energy potential that HHO has.

Just like it costs money to produce gasoline, it costs money to create hydrogen. There are cheaper alternatives than a internal combustion engine turning a generator to create electricity. Nuclear power is much more cost effective in the making of hydrogen but it is still not the cheapest method. Steam-methane reformation currently produces about 95 percent of the hydrogen used in the United States.


Even then, the energy potential of hydrogen pales in comparison to gasoline (volume wise) so fuel storage is a huge issue. Even compressed in a liquid state, gasoline wins. The only way hydrogen can be a viable fuel is if fuel storage is figured out and a cheaper method of making it is found.

 

Anecdotes are not evidence.

That is all.

 

Here the simple truth as I see it. There are thousands of people buying these devices. And thousands being tried. And there are results being posted from these people trying them. I am finding very easy to find people who say it is working and they are getting better mileage. I also find lots of feedback from people who have tried them and got worse gas mileage. This is contrary to this statement:
The cars gain nothing with the addition of the hydrogen gas alone.

They lean the car out with an O2 mod, and suddenly they pick up fuel economy.

Without modding the 02 they DO gain something. Worse fuel economy. Why? Because the HHO is a fuel. It does lean the 02. So the ECU compensates by adding fuel. If the bold statement above was correct then the gas mileage would be the same, not worse.

Its also very easy to find lots of posts from people who say its all a scam. They add the math on how it cant work. Yet all these people have one thing in common.
They haven't tried it.

There are also two different technologies being discussed as one. running your car completely on HHO. and using a simple HHO electrolysis devise to produce a little bit of HHO that helps to improve gas mileage.

Mythbusters made and tested a HHO generator that was supposed to run the car on water. Hilarious horrible attempt at trying to prove or disprove something. Watch the video and see how little HHO gas there machine produced. Then watch the countless videos of backyard mechanics who have made machines that produce the gas 1000s of times faster than what theres did. To me the mythbusters show was staged. There were paid to make the technology look like a joke. And they were very successful at making the common laymen think the whole HHO thing is a bad scam.

Jeez did you even see the stanly meyers videos? The video of the first startup shows the generator producing copious amounts of HHO. enough to give 13.75psi gas pressure while the engine was running. and that was at a measly 5V and 2A =10watts. Compare that to the simple electrolysis machines that draw 12v and 25A = 300watts.

 

The exact same things can be said about the "HP / fuel economy chips" being sold all over Ebay. Those are a scam... so is the whole HHO deal.

You keep saying this but you ALSO have not tried it. You keep referencing other peoples experiences with the system and the YouTube vids they posted. What you fail to mention is that all these people are SELLING something. I am not selling a thing. I am trying to keep people from WASTING their money.

If you can use less fuel and make the same HP with nothing but water in an HHO generator, then it makes sense that you can make a bigger generator and power your whole car. The discussion is the same either way you look at it.

Stanley Meyers was SCAMMING people out of money. He took peoples money telling them they would be dealers of the autos he was going to produce. He was sued and was found GUILTY of fraud. Can you prove he was running 10w into his machine? No, you cant.

You can NOT extract more energy out of something than what you put in. If you could, then this would be the answer that everyone is looking for. This is the simple key to understanding why this wont work. I dont need to try one to know if it will or wont work just like I dont have to hit myself in the head with a hammer to tell me it will or wont hurt.