Kinugawa 20G
Mar 8, 2009, 11:02 PM
#31
The aerodynamics of the compressor wheel. Swinging a 2x4 where you need a leading edge measured in thousandths will affect compressor efficiency and the given heat generated at any given pressure ratio. So if I have 30psi and have a post turbo temp of 300* versus an inefficient compressor and 450*, its obvious that no intercooler will make up that amount of difference and the larger turbo will be down on power.
There is still no MHI wheel that was engineered reverse in a TD06 as has been pointed out. It could say TD06SL2R-G6K 12.5T and it doesnt make it MHI. I am still curious to see if this is decent compared to the older Turbocharger.com TD06 20G Evo IX turbo that has been sold before. Just because its chinese doesnt mean its going to be crap.
There is still no MHI wheel that was engineered reverse in a TD06 as has been pointed out. It could say TD06SL2R-G6K 12.5T and it doesnt make it MHI. I am still curious to see if this is decent compared to the older Turbocharger.com TD06 20G Evo IX turbo that has been sold before. Just because its chinese doesnt mean its going to be crap.
although the performance of these turbos is quite satisfactory the quality is sub standard. the wheels in these turbos can shatter and ruin your day. at least the early ones I bought. I am 100% certain the turbo you have here is not MHI. but like I said they do work well if it dont blow up on you. The numbers on compressor cover dont mean a thing. they stop at nothing to make good copies. I can clearly see casting flaws in your turbo that dont exist with MHI turbos.
on the subject of reverse rotation 20g. Turbocharges.com was sued by MHI for making and selling the reverse rotation 20G. they got there hand slapped to the tune of 70,000$ local here was buying the wheels from them and modding them to work in SRT turbos. he is currently looking for new source.
he is picture of MHI on left and copy with baseball bat leading edge.
Mar 9, 2009, 07:45 AM
#33
That was only an example and purposely exaggerated, note the words "if I have" leading most that speak english to see its hypothetical. I have done testing and seen no increase in load which means no increase in airflow. Like I said that was the Turbochargers.com, but I am nevertheless curious to see what this does. A swing of 15% adibiatic efficiency can make a big difference in compressor outlet temps though. I actually can see some differences in those wheels just in that picture to be honest.
On a side note, I dont make turbos, turbo kits, intercoolers, piping, or cams. It doesnt mean that I havent tested many combinations over the years just to see what they will or will not do. I have tested Ebay intercoolers that were surprisingly efficient and ones that werent. I am sure that there are some chinese turbos that are good, much as I know there are turbos that are not. What turbos have flat leading edges and in what sizes so that I can compare them to turbochargers that I know have enhanced aero?
It seems though that in general we are in agreement these arent without their issues however.
On a side note, I dont make turbos, turbo kits, intercoolers, piping, or cams. It doesnt mean that I havent tested many combinations over the years just to see what they will or will not do. I have tested Ebay intercoolers that were surprisingly efficient and ones that werent. I am sure that there are some chinese turbos that are good, much as I know there are turbos that are not. What turbos have flat leading edges and in what sizes so that I can compare them to turbochargers that I know have enhanced aero?
It seems though that in general we are in agreement these arent without their issues however.
Last edited by JohnBradley; Mar 9, 2009 at 07:49 AM.
Mar 9, 2009, 08:39 AM
#34
I know two locals who have run the turbochargers.com 20g. I would be in disagreement with your statement they make no more flow than 16g. Both cars saw pleasant seat of the pants improvements. One was logging with AEM and saw clear improvements in the logs.
Flat leading edge? you can start with FP HTA turbos. That little areo curve does absolutely nothing for efficiency.
many have bad experiences with e-bay china turbos. so sometimes they get branded as crap before it is even given a chance. they arent all crap. It might surprise you to know where some of the wheels these top turbo companies in USA are coming from.
Flat leading edge? you can start with FP HTA turbos. That little areo curve does absolutely nothing for efficiency.
many have bad experiences with e-bay china turbos. so sometimes they get branded as crap before it is even given a chance. they arent all crap. It might surprise you to know where some of the wheels these top turbo companies in USA are coming from.
Mar 26, 2009, 02:35 PM
#38
Evolved Member
That doesn't mean anything to me. What matters is who runs the plant, the R&D that is behind the product, and so on and so forth. If an American company or Japanese company decides to build a plant in Taiwan, but they are using that cheap labor to make a good product, it can still be a good product. But if a Chinese company makes a sloppy copy of someone else's work and then builds it a Chinese factory with cheap labor, that's when you can have problems.
Mar 26, 2009, 05:49 PM
#39
You would be surprise by going to a manufacturing plant in China or Malasia and see the brand name units and the ones you call "sloppy copy of someone else's work" comming out of the same line. I am not going start a flame war here. But I have been working as a Product Engineer in manufacturing for the last 13 years. Not all "chinese copies" are good but not all are bad either.
Mar 27, 2009, 08:03 AM
#40
Evolved Member
Sure, I understand that's also a possibility. Many goods are just sold with a different brand on the same product. But I also understand that sort of assumption can't be applied to everything, it just depends.
Apr 14, 2009, 01:46 PM
#41
Quick update. I installed the turbo last week. I have not tune it yet but it spools very fast. I see full boost just under 4K RPMs. With my previous setup Evo 8 turbo with the 9.8 hotside I was seeing full boost at aprox 3.6K now with the 20G and the 20.5 hotside it goes full boost about 3.9K. Full boost is now ~300 RPMs later. I am not usre if this is good or bad but it is not noticeable. I need to tune the ECU boost control now.
For now I am running it at WG pressure (WGDC @ 50%) which is ~16 psi for the actuator that came with it. I will put may be 100 miles at lower boost just in case it needs any kind of break in and then I will and adjust it to 23~24 psi. Still on stock cams. I will buy Kelford 264 or GSC S1 soon.
PS: Just to clarify. This comparison is between two pulls starting at about ~2800 RPMs on second gear. Data is taken from data logs and JDM Map Sensor. If I do the same thing at fourth gear and start at 2000 RPMs I will see full boost about 3200 RPMs on the 20 G. I testing this today but looking at the boost gauge and the tach.
For now I am running it at WG pressure (WGDC @ 50%) which is ~16 psi for the actuator that came with it. I will put may be 100 miles at lower boost just in case it needs any kind of break in and then I will and adjust it to 23~24 psi. Still on stock cams. I will buy Kelford 264 or GSC S1 soon.
PS: Just to clarify. This comparison is between two pulls starting at about ~2800 RPMs on second gear. Data is taken from data logs and JDM Map Sensor. If I do the same thing at fourth gear and start at 2000 RPMs I will see full boost about 3200 RPMs on the 20 G. I testing this today but looking at the boost gauge and the tach.
Last edited by racer135; Apr 14, 2009 at 03:03 PM.
Apr 21, 2009, 06:14 PM
#43
I installed the Kinugawa 20G last week. I am still playing with the boost and fuel map. I want to add cams so I do not want to spend too much time with the current tune. I will post pictures when I have a chance.
I also need injectors. With this turbo and stock cams I am now at 93% IDC at 22~23 PSI. I do have a walbro but still I am close to the stock injectors limit. I am sure that with cams I will be injector limited. I have a set of PTE 880 that will be installed soon.
I may take it to the dyno to test it before adding the injectors and cams to see how much power I got. With the stock 8 turbo I made 265 awhp with an TBE when I took it to the dyno. Kind of low I know, but with a very conservative self tune on the road. It feels WAYYYY stronger now.
I also need injectors. With this turbo and stock cams I am now at 93% IDC at 22~23 PSI. I do have a walbro but still I am close to the stock injectors limit. I am sure that with cams I will be injector limited. I have a set of PTE 880 that will be installed soon.
I may take it to the dyno to test it before adding the injectors and cams to see how much power I got. With the stock 8 turbo I made 265 awhp with an TBE when I took it to the dyno. Kind of low I know, but with a very conservative self tune on the road. It feels WAYYYY stronger now.
Last edited by racer135; Apr 21, 2009 at 06:17 PM.
