spdracerut

iTrader: (2)

Hmm... interesting. The twinscrool T4 setup made the same power and torque at lower boost levels below 4200rpms. I'm guess it was able to run a lot more timing due to less backpressure from the turbine housing.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

I agree there is no reason to test T4 open housing anything.

Here is what I suggest:

1) Twinscroll T4 Borgwarner Airwerks S300SX 83-75 1.10 A/R
2) Twinscroll T4 Borgwarner Airwerks S300SX 91-79 1.10 A/R
3) Twinscroll T4 Garrett 35R - 1.06 A/R
4) Twinscroll T4 Garrett HTA3582R 1.06
5) Open T3 Garrett 35R .82 A/R
6) Open T3 Garrett HTA3582R .82 A/R

AFAIK, no TS turbine housing (yet) exists for the PTE billet turbos (e.g. 6262), so I'm not sure what we could learn from testing them in open housings only.

Feel free to toss in a comparably tested HTA3586R if you can get your hands on one. If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

Lastly Geoff, as you know that dynos lie when it comes to spool, we can't make any assertions about real-world spool characteristics unless you take the car off the rollers and make a 3rd gear boost vs. rpm log.

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

this thread will only go to hell if the people posting allow it to. KEEP IT CLEAN!!!


thanks ted, that was excellent input. its a good idea to log boost and ebp off the rollers. I dont yet have access to an HTA86 OR a 6262. but if we can get one I would love to test it since a lot of people have claimed their hta35 did not do any better than a std 35R. Also, we could test the borgwarner 83-75 as a singlescroll T4 .88 A/R (i dont think anyone cares tho). As we both know the dyno only tells half the story, but its a start especially if everyone can agree on a testing methodology

dave -- thank you for your input. Lets NOT let this thread turn into a pissing match, i dont want to waste any time, and i dont intend on producing any BS results. I want this test to be performed using optimal setups. If testing it with a T3 singlescroll header and .82 a/r is the one to compare against, we'll do that. We have no problem doing what you are proposing - ie building proper T3 and T4 headers, thats all we do. I was thinking about using the .68 a/r singlescroll T4 (behavies similarly to the .82 t3 singlescroll) but if you say .82 singlescroll T3 is the only one you will take seriously thats what we will test.

To make sure i understand - you are recommending that we test the hta35R and gt3582R in a .82 a/r T3 on a singlescroll T3 manifold? Then we can retest them as twinscroll T4 1.06?

dynoing 6 or 7 different turbos in 1 day, switching from T3 to T4 and back again, logging EBP, driving the car back and forth, strapping up to the dyno, etc. Im sure you realize how much work is involved in making this happen, it is simply not possible to do in 24 hrs. We will do the best we can and if the only complaint is that our tests werent accurate due to the changing days then i have done my job well.

^^^^^

sounds good but we dont have a hta86, nor any of the 6262 turbos?

thanks for the offer, please try to get it in singlescroll T3 since everyone seems to be agains the singlescroll T4. Also why not the 6262? that seems to be what everyone is most interested in, i would MUCH rather test the 6262 based on the results from this forum

yeah thats why im kicking myself for not logging EBP on the first turbo. it will be logged for all the others.

bolio

These tests are great, but I agree with Dave that you should use the proper Shearer T3 manifold for the single scroll turbos and your product for the TS. How about the 4088R thrown in the mix to compare to the BW journal on this setup?

Shearer

iTrader: (6)

I'm excited for this, I wish I had some free time as I'd love to fly out to help/hangout and thaw my blood. And I am looking forward to some of the Borg Warner comparisons. I'm not a big fan of them for big boost applications but for the money they cost it is hard not to be a fan.

I'd say use the T3 housings on the open volute 35r testing. Depending on what back pressure feed back you get from the 1.06 T4 housing I'd try to choose the T3 housing that mimics the back pressure of the T4 housing the closest. Or try both the .63 and .82 if you have time.

One thing of importance! Will runner diameters stay the same between the T3 and T4 tests?

A ***** to the wall dyno pull with the T3 and T4 housings on the 35r would be sweet too.

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

Hi ron, were not going to try and mimic backpressure to determine which housing to run, we only have so much time so we will test the setups that are considered the "standard" and go from there. .63 a/r is too small and a waste of time imho. the runner dia is another point of debate, as we use a different runner dia for our twinscroll vs singlescroll headers. if people can agree on one methodology, we'll test it this week. if you and dave would rather supply a shearer header/turbo/downpipe for us to test the singlescroll stuff with i would be honored.

you really want Full-Race to do a test using a shearer manifold what is wrong with using a Full-Race singlescroll T3 manifold? Dave Buschur even had one on his car for a little while. adding the 4088R to the test is do-able, just one more turbo to add to the list

TwStDeVo

iTrader: (62)

cant wait to see the results from this testing guys! so far, only other turbo i would suggest is the 4088r.

Shearer

iTrader: (6)

I'm a fan of the .63 housing but I understand your point about it being to small. My thought was to keep that option open if the back pressure logs between the T3 and T4 are significantly different.

My small runner t3 manifold that we discussed is in process but on the bottom of my to do list. I doubt our time lines between getting it finished and your testing would work out but I might be able to send that your way if you're interested.

The difference in runner sizing is of vital importance IMO and it would be optimal to keep them the same. Especially since a major point of this is to show spool up characteristics.

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

geoff i would deff like to see the 4088R in this mix. mainly compared to the BW and the hta86.


also the test car is built so can we actually through some good boost numbers at these turbo tests???

i say nothing less then 32/35psi. and all texts should be done fully tuned on the same fuel and same boost levels for each turbo/setup.

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

so maybe he can make one of each?? meaning

1 small runner single
1 large runner single
1 small runner twin scroll
1 large runner twin scroll.

juanmedina

iTrader: (1)

sweet finally some real proof for the skeptics

juanmedina

iTrader: (1)

the 6062 is comparable to a 35r the 6262 is much larger. The 6062 will spool faster.

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

I'm unsubscribing, how's that work for ya? I wasn't turning this into a pissing match, I was stating testing it the way it was pointed out is BS and it is.

Nothing wrong with the .63 housing. Tubing diameter has to stay the same too.

Now carry on. I'm done with this one.

Magnumpsi

iTrader: (2)

Dave I would be more than happy to test the T3 with a .63 on a T3 manifold.

I have no problems with that. I dont want this to be a pissing match anymore than the next guy.

On a side note. I think everyone should own a GTR. They are fast and I just cannot believe how fast they really are. I think Nissan should give them away to people.

Alright back on track.

Mitch

ScorpionT

iTrader: (1)

Exactly!