I installed a B&B catback exhaust today. I had planned on taking it to a exhaust shop but they were to busy to do it today and I wanted it on. Easy bolt on catback no prob. I had the OEM catback off just about the time Fed Ex arrived with the B&B.

Looks very well made. Good welds, nice flanges, polished, all hardware suppied, very nice hangers, cool.

So anyway I put the axle back section up first because both hangers are on it with none on the midpipe. I then put the front of the midpipe up on the bolts sticking out of the stock cat using the original gasket not one of the new copper ones that is supplied. I figure since I'm not changing cat to 3 inch yet I don't need the bigger hole in the new gasket.

I get it all up with everything still completly loose. Looks good all lined up. So I tighten the cat to the midpipe, going back and forth from each bolt making sure I tighten them evenly. No prob all I need to do is tighten the bolts from the midpipe to axleback, 15 more minutes I'll be done.

Well when I go to tighten the 2 nuts I realize that the nut and the bolt head are hitting the welds and not laying flat. I crank them down evenly to see if it will seal. Well it doesn't. I'm using one of the new copper gaskets supplied. When it is tight there is a small gap in the middle of the flanges both top and bottom, even with the bolts very tight as if the flange is not flat. I figure I'll take it back off which is a pain in the *** because I only have one 19mm open end wrench and a socket wont fit even with an extension because the bolts/nuts are so close to the pipe. Also the nuts provided are the very tight self locking type so they are hard to get off and on anyway.

Whole time I'm thinking Billy Bob, Boat whatever master fabricator my ***, probably has his tweaker hillbilly brother-in-law doing the fabricating . Why didn't you make the flange an 1/8" bigger Billy Bob, and clamp them together tight in the jig before welding the pipe.

When I get it off I use a dremel with carbide tip to clear away a little of the weld so the nuts/ bolts will lay flat on the flange. I use two copper gaskets now hoping to fill the gap, nope same result. WTF is the flange bent, are the bolts binding in a way to cause it not to fit flat? Looks flat when I take it apart and line them up (no gap). I try taking it apart and putting bolts through the flange the oposite way, same prob.

Very pissed, now an hour later. Head to auto parts store (covered in Mitsubishis undercoat ) for thicker softer gasket material, cut 2 gaskets and place one of the supplied copper ones in the middle of the two I cut. Tighten it up and it seals finally after second hour of labor to tighten two nuts. WTF. Did I do something wrong? Maybe just a defective flange? That's what I'm guessing.

Suggestion, have a shop do it.

Well its now on and sealed. Sounds good. about same volume as stock, a little louder with lower throatier note. Very nice. If you want loud get something else. I didn't want loud, trying to stay stealth and this is perfect for me. Lines up perfect. Tip is the best I've seen.

Seems to make a bit more power, guessing 10-15hp on top of flash. I had installed WORKS 91/exhale flash a couple of days prior and what a difference that made.

I will have a shop install the DP, 3" cat, after WORKS gets boost control flash done. Tired of rolling in undercoat.

Car pulls all the way to 7k now. Very linear power. No noticable drop in power after 5500 rpm now. Can't wait for boost flash!

All in all I'm very happy with the improvements from both the exaust, SS clutch line and flash. Recomend all highly. Grounding goes on tomorrow.

This car Rocks! Knock knock no probs so far. 4800 miles.


Take care

 

Like you, I like to do all of my own mod work because it saves money, and ...its fun to do! At least most of the time......... . Having to do things repeatedly, and having to struggle to get a part to fit really sucks.

I can only imagine getting covered in that black crap, as I had it on my arms and hands after installing my boost gauge last weekend. That stuff does not want to come off!!

Btw - I had a turbo-back Milltek w/DP/Race cat that I bought for my 337 last year. What a great looking exhaust! When I went to install the 02 sensors the front one wouldn't fit due to a little blob of slag below the threads that was keeping the actual sensor from being inserted. Like you the dremel was my saviour, but I was really pissed that such a nice quality part was smudged by this kind of flaw.

Glad you like the exhaust! I am really surprised it isn't loud as the B&B for the M3's were pretty noisy.

Btw the boost control flash will be a nice add!

N10S

 

I found rubber gloves help a lot. Also the black stuff seems to come off best by wiping most of it off it off dry before using solvents (e.g. goop).

How did the gauge install go?

 

B&B exhausts are well known in the Porsche 911 community. Obviously some people like them, but many others view them as in a negative light. Specifically people have cut them apart and found restrictions for no apparent reason. Also from an external view there have been reports of the mufflers splitting at the weld seams over time (temp cycling?).

Thus I decided not to go with a B&B on my car. It was a toss up between FabSpeed and an OEM sport exhaust. I went with the OEM mufflers given that I got a good deal.

 

Well if it splits at the welds I'll be pissed. Has a lifetime warranty but hopefully I'll never use it. Your the first person I've heard talk about B&B welds failing but I don't frequent Porche/BMW forums. Shown to have good HP increase on Evo. I really like the exhaust note it gives.

The stock midpipe does not look restrictive at all, just smaller diameter. I took the muffler section off first and started it just to see how it sounded. Not loud at all and a very nice tone. I can see why an axle back without a muffler would work well and still give decent HP gain.

I also installed a grounding kit today. I wasn't having any probs before with idle or stalling. Maybe placebo effect but it feels even better to me

Can't wait for WORKS boost flash and DP install. After that I will focus on suspension and weight reduction.

Take care

 

Mojo,

That's interesting you shared our rant. I spent over 6 hours yesterday trying to install my B&B, what should have been a 30 minute job. I was going to write about it this morning to see if I could find a solution to my issues. I had all the same problems you mentioned and had issues with bolting it up as well with clearance issues on the bolts to weld. Once bolted, the darn thing is leaking at the center of the flanges so I'm trying to see if I want to try to find a fix for the leak or just return it. Love the way it looks but obviously the copper gaskets aren't going to seal and another attempt at sealing with a thicker makeshift gasket is still having issues as no stores around me carried a 3" 2 post gasket.

Reading your rant was almost like I wrote it, including being all covered in that darn undercoating. So far, I've killed a Saturday with several trips to the parts store and the car is still up on jack stands. Looks like I'll kill this afternoon putting the stock one back on unless I figure something out. I'm wondering if other exhausts have this problem.

 

..

 

We installed this system on a friend of mine's Evo last week and had a similar problem. I have sent the link of this thread to him and he should probably post up in a little bit. We basically used some black colored gasket sealant to fix the seal issue after an hour or so of frustraion trying to get them to line up correctly.

 

Instead of ranting about this....Why dont you CALL us at B&B and tell us what the problem is... We will work with you... There should be zero problems with installing the system.

Call us or the place you purchased the system from... Again there should be ZERO problems with the system. We monitor these boards and listen to all the feed back...When I get into work tomorrow morning I will be passing all this information on. We strive for excellence and will provide you with the best quality assistance possible!!!

I am sorry to hear about the problems you encountered...

Virt

 

Virt--

The problem we had is nothing major. It is just that the intermediate pipe flange did not make as flush a fit with the axle-back pipe as it needed to in order to get a proper seal. We used a little gasket sealent and the problem was solved.

 

The reason I'm ranting is because it was a pain in the *** unecessarily. And I already came up with a solution for the poor fitment of the midpipe to axleback flanges. I posted not just to rant but to let others who are and will be receiving B&B exhaust know what problems they may encounter. That way they will be prepared with everything they need before they get started if they plan on installing it themselves.

What would you tell me if I called you? You'd say send it back and we'll fix it or send you another right. What a ****ing pain in the *** that would be at the end of the day covered in undercoat with my car still on ramps. Then u might say well you modified it with the dremel so warranty is void right. Come on!

Your right there should be zero problems with all the R&D Billy Bob supposedly did. Why coudn't you figure out the flanges needed to be a little wider or holes farther outboard so the nuts/bolts don't hit the welds? Why couldn't you figure out how to make two flanges fit flush when tightened ?

It was easier for me to spend a couple extra hours doing my own R&D/ modifications on your product to make it fit than try and send it back, get it? Get it right the first time and I won't rant, get it.

Get your quality control in gear man and take care of the problem then people won't rant. That's the solution not telling people call us, we'll fix it , send it back, **** that! Why don't you offer to refund some money to me and the others here that have the problem. That would help. I wasted my valuable time fixing the problem rather than waisting more time taking it all off ,repackaging the product, shipping back ($), reinstalling stock exaust (more time), and hoping you don't send me another one that doesn't fit 2 weeks later. Get it!

If you notice at the end I still recomended your exaust, you should be grateful for that. Give me some money back that's what I want. I saved you a lot of time and $ by not sending it back. Get It!

Hey mov_ovr,
go to the auto parts store and buy a sheet of high temp gasket material and cut your own gaskets, that will work. I didn't want to use gasket sealer because the gap was big enough I figured it woudn't last. Cost me $14 dollars as i had to buy a whole sheet. Hear that B&B 14 more dollars out of my pocket because of your poor quality control.

Hey sanantone,
I still think this is a very nice exaust once it is on and these issues are resolved. I'd still recommend it highly. These are small issues nothing that should cause you not to purchase the B&B. I've just been through this to many times with products. Just make sure they send you one that is manufactured after this monday if you plan on installing it yourself. If It's installed at a muffler shop I think these are non issues really. They will have everything there to fix it quickly. Now if it starts leaking because I had to use to thick a gasket that's another story.

Hey B&B don't bother responding to me unless you want to send me a $100 refund for spending 2 extra hours and $14 dollars of my own money. Then you'd hear me ranting about how B&B takes care of there customers I gaurantee it. I will not waste more of my valuable time calling you as I already fixed the problem and you are obviously aware of it now. Why don't you contact me through a PM here and take care of it? You know where you can reach me now. I do appeciate that you are concerned about the issue and undoubtedly will resolve it. Hopefully before to many people receive the ones your sending out now.

I'll rant all day about how much I like the WORKS products and customer service because they delivered exactly as advertised with zero problems. Get it?

I think the reason I get so upset about problems such as this one is I've been through the send it back routine so many times. All because the manufacturers are sending out products with poor quality control. Then they expect me to spend more of my time and $ to purchase their product. No thanks.

Take care

 

Mr. Virtego,

I am the person that StricklyBidness was talking about. He was there when I installed mine. I think I was the first one to have had this problem. I installed mine on 9-14-03.

I never posted anything negative about the exhaust system. However, I called B&B first thing Monday morning 9-15-03 after having spent 2 hours trying to get the thing to seal the night before. I ended up having to use a black silicone gasket maker that I had laying in the garage on both sides of the copper gasket.
The person I talked with at B&B told me to not use the copper gasket and go to an autoparts store and get the high temp copper silicone gasket maker. I asked him why you would send out copper gaskets if they don't work, and he said that B&B only sends out gaskets with them because people want them. He said he would never use a gasket on an exhaust system, and would only use the high temp silicone sealer.

I was very aggrevated by this response. But I let it slide.

The problem with the flanges is that they are not flat enough to seal with such a thin, rigid, sealing material such as copper. With the flanges and copper gasket perfectly alligned and the 2 bolts/nut tightened there is an air gap on the top and bottom of the flange. There is alot of exhaust leakage at these two air gaps. I believe there was some warpage due to the heating of the flange when it was welded. This is due to there is not a large enough heat sink built into the flanges. Heat stress causes the metal flanges to try to relax because of their internal stresses.

In my opinion, there are 2 ways to solve this issue. You can either use a thicker stainless steel flange or you can switch to a 3 bolt flange. The 3 bolt flange gives you pressure every 120 degrees and also equilaterally with the center hole. One other option could possibly be to use a sandwich type OEM foil gasket like the factory gaskets (except with a 3" center hole).

Without one of these 3 options above, this rather simple exhaust install becomes a 2 hours pain in the ****. Virtego, I really would like some recognition of this problem and possible correction. For $625, you should expect better than that. This is such a basic design/manufacturing flaw for such a well built exhaust system. Other than this flange problem, this is a very high quality exhaust system. The sound is awesome as well, not too loud, just right. The boost amazingly enough seems to spool up noticeable faster.

My $.02


Brian

 

Mojo,

I didnt have to grind any weld off on mine, but they were close to the welds. They are so close to the weld that you can't get a closed end wrench on them. They could have moved the bolt holes out a little furter away from the center hole and made it easier to install. It is much easier to torque down a nut and bolt with a closed end wrench, especially those fancy lock nuts. They are pretty tough to tighten and loosen. I had alot of practice just like you did. My guess is that they had used this flange on another system and just reused it so they didn't have to draw up a new flange and have another flange in stock.

It is definitely a good sounding exhaust though. It also looks very high quality.


Brian

 

I only posted on this thread because I want the entire Evo community to get the best possible system. I only suggested calling us for that reason. We need to know these things in order to correct them. I totally feel your pain when it comes to having your car apart and something like that happening. Would make me as well

Again I am sorry to hear about any kind of problem, and trust me when I get in tomorrow everyone will know about this...

Virt...


p.s. Turbodawg you called me Mr hehe ive been called alot of stuff but Mr!!!

 

That is MR. Turbodawg to you PAL!!!!!!