Dave I think the double pumper is great. I did one back in '03 for Tom Hughes Evo before you were doing them

I just question the stock lines adequacy to 700whp.

I pushed the stock lines to 540 due to your hardwork and testing.... before I ran out of pump. You were also the first person to mod the walbro 342's... took me a good while to figure out what you did! Trust me when I say I appreciate and respect all the doing you do.
I don't bring this stuff up to hate... I bring it up to learn. I think Ted hit the nail on the head.

"We like reading about the results. As for us 'thinkers' who chose a different professional path than modifying/tuning cars, lending our thoughts, at no charge, is how we participate in contributing information. "

Slorice,
I'm not insulting Dave.

 

I'm aware of this. Like I said, I think the point you are trying to get across is getting lost in the message. I understand what you are saying, but many do not.

 

I think that's fine. The people who need to understand do.

 

The product works great yet you're trying to point out flaws (if they exist) which don't matter enough to warrant doing anything about it.

You can go on an on about various NON issues until you're blue in the face but that doesn't change the fact that it works great. I really don't care about how you work with engineers using 36,000psi, Tony Palo etc...until they build a better twin pump setup for less. I've worked with quite a few engineers in my years and most of them are intelligent but none of them know how to make an evo fly so wgaf. I'm not impressed with people who talk, I'm impressed with people and products that get things done.

 

I'll retract my statement and just note that it's not worth my time to argue with you.

 

Fair enough guys, then I just appreciate the input, I always seem to come out a little further ahead after a good topic like this, so carry on with your input.

Let me say this. I spoke with Kinsler and Weldon. Two companies we deal with about what I was doing. I was told by both that PUSHING fuel through a 5/16" line I'd be able to make very close to 1,000 flywheel hp. I didn't just come up with this crap on my own, I asked to companies I respect about it.

I know for a fact based on dyno results using E85 in Brian's car he made 704 whp in 3rd gear using the ID2000 cc injectors and we did not run out of fuel or fuel pressure, it stayed flat. This was on the single stock line. If we just consider the fact that E85 is using about 30% more fuel that would mean that on gasoline we could make 915 whp through that same fuel line on our dyno, in 3rd gear.

I can not give any more information than that as these are factual numbers from testing and what I've seen. Take them for what they are.

I finished my fuel system on my car today, it came out SWEET. Cars running

 

David, the talk about fuel damping is more about just maximizing injector efficiency, predictability, and consistency. I don't think it would in it's self produce horsepower. The benefits may show up as allowing you to run a slightly leaner AFR or run timing a little bit closer to MBT since the AFR in the chamber will be more stable and subject to less variance. Or maybe it will just make injectors last longer and run more quietly.

Adding a OEM Honda pulse damper for $30 and a tapped port on the fuel rail might be all it takes.

 

An upgraded fuel rail (as david has done) with larger volume acts to change the resonant Hz of the operating fuel system.

 

Sure. With enough pump behind it, it's probably possible to get 2000 bhp worth of fuel out of a 5/16" line. If one finds himself in a situation that exposes the capacity of the pumps however (like from raising the pressure to get more injector flow), enlarging the line gains a bit more pump capacity. It's just a factoid to file somewhere in your mind.

 

Ted B, do you have a plot of flow vs pressure drop over distance for different square areas that one can use to visualize? Of course assuming laminar flow etc...... basically ideal automotive variables. I have generic formulas that aren't *realistic* as far as I'm concerned.

 

I don't have one, but it would be useful.

 

Here's an interesting site that you can use for the calculations.

Edit: I see that Ted posted something similar previously and perhaps a better calculator. But nonetheless you can plot a few points to make a graph to see the effects of changing parameters.

 

I wouldn't be so sure it has a larger volume...

Stock rail has ~5.5in^3 of internal volume
A 5/8" bore 12" long rail has 3.7in^3 internal volume
A 3/4" bore 12" long rail has 5.3in^3 internal volume

The factory rail has lots of volume and a flexible "membrane" built into it to damp out pressure pulses.

 

In the video the fuel socks or filters are discolored, from running the e98. Should they be replaced periodically from running e-type fuel?

 

The socks are discolored on every single sock ever put in the fuel tank of a car from every type of fuel. The coloring is not from E85 or E98.