I consider myself lucky since I'm in the 10-20% of meth users that hasn't blown an engine based on this threads title. Actually, it's not luck, it's proper setup and tune, including failsafes. It's like any other modification, it comes with risk, and as long as you manage the risk properly, your engine will live a long life. It doesn't hurt to educate yourself on how/why meth/water injection works, and understand the fact that poor atomization will lead to unequal flow distribution cylinder to cylinder. Everything has mass, and mass doesn't like to make sharp left hand turns into the intake runners once it's up to speed in the intake plenum. Fine atomization is a must.

Aquamist systems have built in just about all of the necessary features to manage the risks properly. Throw in knock retard and map switching from an AEM (or other tuning platform), and Meth can be a very reliable source of power.

And are you looking for intercooling effect from the meth/water, or knock suppression from excessive cyclinder pressure/temps with the increased timing and boost your running? This will help determine nozzle placement and meth/water concentration. But that's already covered in detail in the meth section of this forum for those truly interested in safely running WMI setups.

Here's the direct port setup on my car. I'm also running two additional nozzles in the intake piping. Each has it's own purpose, and the setup is working flawlessly. And yes, my failsafes have saved my motor on two occasions over the past 3 years.

But the biggest failsafe is a brain, and we all have one. How many motors have been saved with or without meth, because someone has shown good judgment? How many motors have been blown because someone didn't?

 

^^^That's a really nice setup and I agree.

 

I still have reseveration about the title... Read it again, Mike.




First statement: implies all meth Injection may have crack pistons. Second statement: WMI are for the loosers. The thread went on to say E85 is the only sure way to make power safely. IMO it has cross the line of mutual respect of other companies who has products that make good reliable power safely. I think this is a bad way to promote your company in public.

Back to the subject: of probably cause of cylinder 1 failure.

1. Nozzle placement less than ideal .... skipping cyld.1
2. System pressure is not adequate at lower to medium flow rate ... large droplets do not help #1
3. Wmi System's inability to react fast enough to match load change
4. Lack of adequate failsafe/failsafes

Yes, WMI can be blamed but you will find many meth users do take risk of budget system ($), either pay now for a proper system($$) or pay later for an engine rebuild ($$$$$). Many wmi makers do not warn users of the danger of not having a "proper" failsafe. A tank level sensor is just not enough to guard against an engine rebuild. EVO communiuty is blessed with guy like "taphra", providing alternative map for wmi users on the OE ECU, switching in the alt-map during faailsafe activation is seamless.

For those who find it inconvenient to change to E85, wmi is the most cost effective way to make good power barr runing race fuel full time.

Mike, I hope you will change the title.

 

Dubbleugly has a very nice setup. Thats some big $$$. That intake alone wow. The cylinder #1 Issue may not be an issue with Dubbleugly because he is not using an OEM Intake Manifold. If you guys check the link I provided several posts back about the flow testing on the OEM intake by David Buschur sheds light on how the TB design on the Evo might and he says MIGHT be the reason why #1 cylinder gets less air flow than the other 3 cylinders. So that would explain right then and there why the meth is not getting to the cylinder.

Additionally, I have also posted that if you are not using a systme that is primed you are kidding yourself using WMI on the Evo. ESPECIALLY if using an OEM turbo. I have posted about that as well with my personal experience. Most systems are not primed and the checkvalves only hold pressure when there is a certain PSI being made by the pump. So when your in a lower gear the turbo spools quicker than the pump can get juice to the cylinders thus causing knock in the lower gears. Over time, you get what Mike is showing here. It comes down to not having the right equip and Tuners that Half *** the tune.

I challenge any tuner on here to do pulls on a car that they have ALREADY tuned for WMI. Of which you tune at WOT on the 5 spd in 3rd and the 6spd in 4th. Get the customers car on the dyno do WOT in 1st, 2nd, etc and I bet you $$$ you will show knock. Why? the WMI systems that are being used on the Evo are not meant for use on a car like the Evo. A fast spooling turbo. YOU NEED A PRIMED SYSTEM and a Tuner that knows what he is doing. Not one that THINKS he knows what he is doing.

I am in no way affiliated with Aquamist, but with over 2 yrs of studying WMI for my car Aquamist has the BEST record of ANY system available for the Evo. So why don't people use it more? Simple. COST. People are cheap and buy a cheap Snow kit for $200 and stuff like this happends. Worse than that, they install it themselves and really screw it up. Worse? get it to a turner that doesnt know what he is doing and wow that is a recipe for disaster.

If you are considering WMI like I was, and still am, I am on the fence still, but if you get a good solid system like an Aquamist HFS-3 or Higher, run a dual nozzle set up low in the UICP not by the TB, and use it for a cooling affect I think we will see less of Mikes Pictures.

Greed always blows motors not WMI or anything else. People just are greedy and want Too much out of what they have. A solid motor is only good as the sum of its parts. OEM parts, pushing 200whp over stock on a high octane systme that is questionalbe to begin with? Well we all see what can happen.

 

Jeffs,

Thanks for the buschur link, I missed it completely. Good bit of info. It has been hard work over the years not to make compromise on a meth system. We could have easily design a motor speed controller, get an aquatec pump and paddle it to the masses at $299.00. We would be double our system sale over-night.

I did post a link earlier, the exact thing fas happened to a guy with a PPS system, low gears went lean on low gears. Here is it again, This is one more real life proof for you. This thread is five years old, no one has got any wiser since then.

I believe you are still on the fringe of wmi or not, with the amount of care and good understanding of how a wmi system should work, I am sure you will make a good job of it.

 

At one time I had thought about running methanol on top of my 93oct tune just for added safety, but not tune it to the ragged edge and make it a time bomb. But at the same time, I never trusted a single nozzle in the IC pipe. If I were to run meth, it would have to be a direct port setup much like dubbleugly's setup.

 

I totally agree with you.The issue you mention really becomes apparent when you try to use a large quantity of meth with a stock turbo, i.e. being cheap and trying to squeeze blood out of a stone .

 

IMHO, this lines are the essence of it all. No way of writing it better.


Although it may not seem so, this thread has turned informative to the point of having a responsible manufacturer step up to the plate and a good tuning shop willing to provide facts, with the added benefit of smart people posting good info. If the thread can be kept that way it will speak well for all and we, users, will benefit in the end.


Best regards,

 

Holy Crap!!! I am shocked I didnt wind up this way, good thing I have opted to not run it anymore and turning to E85

 

I've been back and forth about running an meth kit for more than a year. Aquamist has been the only kit I've considered due to all the failsafe features. Threads like this still make me nervous though. I've started a thread for people to respond if they have experienced engine failure or damage due to running an Aquamist kit or you witnessed it while tuning or repairing a customers car. I'm not interested in hearing about poorly set up, no-failsafe, or home made kits. Thanks. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/wa...amist-kit.html

 

I had that kit on my car for a while, swapped it out for Aquamist because I realized how dangerous of a setup it was!

This thread still makes me a bit upset Mike, I think adding any info you can put in the #1 post to include the fact that a cheap/sh!tty meth kit will give you results like this, but a properly setup one will lessen the risk dramatically.

Again I had 50k miles on my car with alky injection, no problems like this. Aquamist FTMFW!

 

I had 70k on my car with the SMC kit with no problems. The tune was very conservative however, and didn't lean on the alky/meth at all....

 

Is there any way to do a direct injection type of meth kit?

 

a member on here has done one, im sure richard can hook you up

 

I didn't bother reading past page #3

where was the meth nozzle installed?