Sorry I'm late to the party but I was just made aware of this thread. I don't venture into this section of the forum at all so I had no idea it was here. I also just got back from spending two weeks out at the Bonneville salt falts so I have some catching up to do... like 26 pages worth. Ugh.

I will comment after I read through all of this.

 

Well most everything I could possibly think of saying has pretty much already been said. Richard has very eloquently fought a battle for all of us pro-water/methanol injection users and done so better than I probably could have. Thanks to Richard for that.

Without drawing this out much further I want to quote something and then I'll say my part and be done.

I think the issues brought up in the thread and highlighted with a handful of pictures is entirely the result of poor tuning. Water/methanol injection didn't cause that piston to fail. Detonation did. All this looks to be the result of improperly used water/methanol injection systems and poor tuning.

No water/methanol injection failsafe in the world is going to protect against bad tuning. Too much timing without enough detonation suppresant is going to result in knock. These systems aren't fool proof guys. If they aren't setup properly bad things can happen.

Like it's already been said before, there are tens of THOUSANDS of other people using properly installed, tuned, and used water/methanol injection systems without any problems like what's been described here.

I think those that already use water/methanol injection know how well it works and will continue to stick with it and those who don't use it still won't. To each their own but those tens of thousands of other people can't all be wrong, can they?

 

I stick with meth due to convenience. I know how it works. Many years experience. 93 octane when i want...no draining of the fuel tank.
93+Meth @ the flip of a switch.

E85'd evo on a road trip = not a good idea

 

 

I did not responded to this thread to defend the indefensible.

I think the problem was originated from the wmi maker, not giving user sufficient warning and inaquate failsafe to match the system's flow capability. For example, if a system is capable of flowing in the region of 1000cc/minute or more, it has to be a part of the total fueling otherwise it won't work. Because of this, any responsible wmi maker should include a failsafe that will monitor the w/m flow in real time. If the flow is too low or too much, an automatic failsafe mechanism should react instantly to plan B.

Tuners should not be held responsible for a progressive system that cannot give consistent AFR across all load sites, that means all gears and not just on 4th gear. As most tunes are done on 4th gears. A wmi system that tracks boost can only be correct in one gear. In lower gears, boost shifts to a higher RPM location. I believe this was one of the cause of those cracked pistons. Badly positioned nozzles didn't help either.

I can only defend our corner (aquamist) and if would be unfair to assume I have so far defended the entire wmi makers on their behalf.

Please speak out for AEM and their effort to minmise this sort of post from happening again. Mike@AWD is just an opportunist, post like this is totolly uncalled for under any circumstances.

 

I cant disagree your right that much of it is poor tuning.. Why cyl 1-2 crack before the rest i still cant figure out because on Gas it doesnt happen that way from my experience or on E85.. Maybe i lost track of the answer if someone knows but AEM or Richard can you explain why Cyl 1-2 Crack 1st on Meth and not E85 or Gas??

Now due to the lack of competent tuners being probably 25-1 i will still stand by my opinion about meth because as said above when not tuned right, its a ticking time bomb.. HOWEVER, from my experience and just mine alone E85 diffuses that ticking time bomb on many occasions.. As my HIGHLY experienced tuner crispeed looks at maps on cars as they roll in here with some complete garbage map in the car he says " i dont know how this car hasnt blown up yet, thank god for E85 ".. We have seen our own car so dead lean from pump failures, FPR issues, fuel lines bursting @ WOT in 4th gear at 900hp and the motors survive on E85.. I dont beleive you can be so lucky on Meth.. Its an external supplement and when the map doesnt change for the supplement of fuel and the fuel is not working the motor goes bye bye..

Mike

 

Mike, I have already explained the probably caused of the cracked piston. So far you have posted on car, one wmi brand. Until I see the rest of the install, I cannot agree with you 100% that all wmi system will cause this.. that it what the title implies.

I do have a question, if one pump has failed on an E85 car, what AFR will be be seeing? You must know this, afr over 16:1 does not blow engines. What do you call "dead lean"?

If a fuel line bursts, you can run on any fuel and it will not blow an engine.

 

Thats correct if you lose fuel completely, car will shut off and in many cases will survive.. its still will be lean for a short period of time.. I have seen cars come in 13-14:1 on E85 with pressure problems..

Mike

 

Perhaps state your claim a bit clearer next time.

 

No problem..

I replied before you updated your post with what i already knew and answered.. been doing this for quite some time..

 

Mike, are you saying you never ever have a blown engine? I love to see some Dyno charts on AFR of 13-14:1 at WOT to verify your claims.

Almost all car on the road runs this AFR, this is what the lambda probe is there for. Diect injection car runs these ratios at WOT all day long, and it does not not use E85.

 

Sure i can dig up some dyno charts of cars coming in here @ 13+ AFR WOT..

All cars on the road run this AFR??

Maybe you need to be clearer on this one as i am not understanding what cars come in 13+ AFR Boosted Factory and live for long..

Evo X doesnt
GTR doesnt
STi Doesnt

Should i go on??

Lets not get into too many subjects at 1x.. Direct injection is not on the cars we are discussing..

 

I can see where your coming from mike.
if a pump or e85 tune/install is badly done it may not end in engine failure
if a wmi tune/install is badly done the chances are higher for engine failure
?

 

I say if you like it, know it and its convient, then stick with it,

BUT..

First, when trying to run pump after you have been runing E85, there is no training of the e85 needed. Just run it real low and add pump. But yes, when you have been running pump and want to go back to E85, you may need to drain your tank if this was how your E85 tune was done (with 100% E85, no traces of gas).

Next, if the E85'd EVO uses the same map switch you do on your meth EVO, then it can change maps between E85 and pump, and a road trip is no problem.

 

from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE YES.. If the Meth setup and tune is bad i would say YES you have a much higher chance of engine failure.. E85 from my experience has saved MANY MOTORS when other parts on the car have failed.. This is not just Evos.. This goes for 1200hp Supras we have seen that should have MELTED DOWN and didnt when there was nitrous failures, fuel pump issues etc..

Mike