So you have Meth Injection.. Are your pistons also cracked??
Evolved Member
iTrader: (33)
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 1
From: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
Its technically not cheaper as you still need ot purchase it along with premium gas for your car whereas E85 is a simple pump and go proposition. Even though its cheaper then regular gas you are filling up more often....still works out to be about the same as filling up on premium cost wise.
Very Glad i stumbled upon this..... I planned on using meth when my project was complete. Now I'm back to implementing e85. Stations are limited in my area of so.cal but I'll just have to stock pile 1 can per full tank.
Thanks
-joel
Thanks
-joel
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 485
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
To Richard at Aquamist
I was going to PM this to Richard, but since this post is so important to me due to the subject matter, I will post it openly.
Richard asked me why I went with a different vendor on my WMI. Well, was simple at the time. I chose the Cooliingmist CMGS kit which "Seemed" to have what I was looking for. I spoke to the owner of the Company personally about my concerns with WMI overall and he seemed very keen to my concern. He also was based in the USA so I thought if did have any trouble, support would be just a phone call a way. Lastly, a group buy on EvoM sealed the deal for me.
Unfortuneately, it was a HUGE mistake. I have posted in the past about my experience and if you guys want to read it do a search on my user name and you will see it.
The bottom line was the CMGS Coolingmist kit had some great features and to this day I think its a great kit. BUT not for an Evo running a stock turbo. What was supposed to be a 4 hour install plus tuning, ended up being a 3 day ordeal that cost me over $1200!! was a frickin nightmare. My car had almost 10 hrs worth of dyno time and the kit was carefully installed very discretely. On a conservitive tune using 50/50 with an M10 Injector I acheived 370whp. on a more aggressive tune, over 400whp (mustang dyno).
The problem was, 1) the injector O Ring was already leaking on the first day of use. 2) The Cooliingmist Pump was running WAY TOO hot under continous use (dyno time). 3) the checkvalve was not able to hold fluid in the line properly which left the line "semi" full with fluid. Meaning there were "air gaps" in the line. So even with their checkvalve, or solenoid it STILL could not hold fluid, untill the pump actually engaged. So what does this mean? It meant that under boost, in the low RPM's the line does not have adequate fluid to get to the cylinders. The stock turbo spools so quickly that I would be at full boost at an RPM where there would not be enough fluid. Now in the taller gears, its not an issue since the Engine takes longer to Rev, but in the Low gears, the car knoced very badly.
99.9% of ALL tuners out there know that "tuning" is their money maker. Tuning is usually a cash business and they get anywhere from $250-$500 for an hour of work. Not a bad deal huh? Well, what customers NEED to do, is ASK QUESTIONS and dont LEAVE unless YOU are satisfied. Do you research, ask for knock sums, review the power band, look at the curve, whats under the curve, why is there a sum of 2 at 3000rpm and 1 at 4500, I mean JUST ASK. As a FLUKE I asked my tuner to run through every gear. I just had a hunch and asked. The tuner was cool and did. The look in his eyes when you looked at the Laptop was one of disbelieve. Knock sums were WAY too high, 6-9 range 1st gear hit a sum of 12!!!
Here is the deal folks, and if ANYONE can learn from my mistake please just listen to these folks about WMI. YOU MUST CHOOSE YOUR KITS WISELY!!!
Aquamist has the system that the EVO needs. Why? They are primed at a constant 160psi. So you reading this saying so what? What that means is that like your fuel system that feeds your injectors of 91 gas, the Meth line is also pressurized to roughly 160psi, so when their FAV (Fast Acting Valve) opens the fluid is BAM!! there. No delays. Not only that, Aquamist uses IDC (Injector Duty Cycle) to figure out how much meth and when to spray. I can go on and on, and I wish Richard would offer me a free kit instead of AWD haha.
The bottom line is this. I don't care what any tuner says on here. The Bottom line is the car can only be as good as the sum of its parts. BOTTOM LINE. If you are running an Aquamist kit, tuned by a tuner that actually knows how to tune Meth, and you maintain the kit and your car accordingly, Meth can and will be very reliable.
Again, there are not many tuners that will touch cars with meth kits. Why? its a liability for the tuners for one, and two they don't know what they are doing. If they did, there simply would be no hesitation. They would check out what you have, ensure its installed correctly, ensure the proper ratio of fluid and tune. But they don't because 1) most shops don't take the time and 2) time = $$$$. So more time they spend on your car, less money to be made. Tuners wont admit that openly, but MOST (not all) tuners are all about the bottom line.
So now I am stuck. I wanted a meth kit put in, I have an excellent guy here on the boards (esevo) aka Evan Smith, to install and tune, but he is like 5 hours away from me. So what happends when I need help with something? or have a failure? Its a risk for me. I was planning for a Aquamist HFS-3 running a dual nozzle set up, but I have an E85 station 40 miles away. I have PLENTY of fuel cells laying around. I can fill up monthly, get a tune on E85 run a Temphra Mod with a map switch, and run E85 or 91. But its a hassle having to go get the fuel 40 miles each way!!
So I am on the fence. Meth would be best in my situation, especially living in a desert with 110F heat. Im still thinking on it. I will let you all know what I do...when I do somethng.
Jeff
Richard asked me why I went with a different vendor on my WMI. Well, was simple at the time. I chose the Cooliingmist CMGS kit which "Seemed" to have what I was looking for. I spoke to the owner of the Company personally about my concerns with WMI overall and he seemed very keen to my concern. He also was based in the USA so I thought if did have any trouble, support would be just a phone call a way. Lastly, a group buy on EvoM sealed the deal for me.
Unfortuneately, it was a HUGE mistake. I have posted in the past about my experience and if you guys want to read it do a search on my user name and you will see it.
The bottom line was the CMGS Coolingmist kit had some great features and to this day I think its a great kit. BUT not for an Evo running a stock turbo. What was supposed to be a 4 hour install plus tuning, ended up being a 3 day ordeal that cost me over $1200!! was a frickin nightmare. My car had almost 10 hrs worth of dyno time and the kit was carefully installed very discretely. On a conservitive tune using 50/50 with an M10 Injector I acheived 370whp. on a more aggressive tune, over 400whp (mustang dyno).
The problem was, 1) the injector O Ring was already leaking on the first day of use. 2) The Cooliingmist Pump was running WAY TOO hot under continous use (dyno time). 3) the checkvalve was not able to hold fluid in the line properly which left the line "semi" full with fluid. Meaning there were "air gaps" in the line. So even with their checkvalve, or solenoid it STILL could not hold fluid, untill the pump actually engaged. So what does this mean? It meant that under boost, in the low RPM's the line does not have adequate fluid to get to the cylinders. The stock turbo spools so quickly that I would be at full boost at an RPM where there would not be enough fluid. Now in the taller gears, its not an issue since the Engine takes longer to Rev, but in the Low gears, the car knoced very badly.
99.9% of ALL tuners out there know that "tuning" is their money maker. Tuning is usually a cash business and they get anywhere from $250-$500 for an hour of work. Not a bad deal huh? Well, what customers NEED to do, is ASK QUESTIONS and dont LEAVE unless YOU are satisfied. Do you research, ask for knock sums, review the power band, look at the curve, whats under the curve, why is there a sum of 2 at 3000rpm and 1 at 4500, I mean JUST ASK. As a FLUKE I asked my tuner to run through every gear. I just had a hunch and asked. The tuner was cool and did. The look in his eyes when you looked at the Laptop was one of disbelieve. Knock sums were WAY too high, 6-9 range 1st gear hit a sum of 12!!!
Here is the deal folks, and if ANYONE can learn from my mistake please just listen to these folks about WMI. YOU MUST CHOOSE YOUR KITS WISELY!!!
Aquamist has the system that the EVO needs. Why? They are primed at a constant 160psi. So you reading this saying so what? What that means is that like your fuel system that feeds your injectors of 91 gas, the Meth line is also pressurized to roughly 160psi, so when their FAV (Fast Acting Valve) opens the fluid is BAM!! there. No delays. Not only that, Aquamist uses IDC (Injector Duty Cycle) to figure out how much meth and when to spray. I can go on and on, and I wish Richard would offer me a free kit instead of AWD haha.
The bottom line is this. I don't care what any tuner says on here. The Bottom line is the car can only be as good as the sum of its parts. BOTTOM LINE. If you are running an Aquamist kit, tuned by a tuner that actually knows how to tune Meth, and you maintain the kit and your car accordingly, Meth can and will be very reliable.
Again, there are not many tuners that will touch cars with meth kits. Why? its a liability for the tuners for one, and two they don't know what they are doing. If they did, there simply would be no hesitation. They would check out what you have, ensure its installed correctly, ensure the proper ratio of fluid and tune. But they don't because 1) most shops don't take the time and 2) time = $$$$. So more time they spend on your car, less money to be made. Tuners wont admit that openly, but MOST (not all) tuners are all about the bottom line.
So now I am stuck. I wanted a meth kit put in, I have an excellent guy here on the boards (esevo) aka Evan Smith, to install and tune, but he is like 5 hours away from me. So what happends when I need help with something? or have a failure? Its a risk for me. I was planning for a Aquamist HFS-3 running a dual nozzle set up, but I have an E85 station 40 miles away. I have PLENTY of fuel cells laying around. I can fill up monthly, get a tune on E85 run a Temphra Mod with a map switch, and run E85 or 91. But its a hassle having to go get the fuel 40 miles each way!!
So I am on the fence. Meth would be best in my situation, especially living in a desert with 110F heat. Im still thinking on it. I will let you all know what I do...when I do somethng.
Jeff
Evolved Member
iTrader: (33)
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 1
From: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
There is only one E85 station near me- well 60km away into Sydney through Sydney right near the CBD and it runs out alot because enthusiasts out of nearl 7 million people use it.
I'd emtpy half a tank driving there and back.
Meth for me with a map swap and a howerton engineering tank setup, to be fitted when my new motor gets dropped in.
Oh Richard, Jeff is sending my out the direct port injection unit too, it's going to be very very nice on a bushur stroker.
I'd emtpy half a tank driving there and back.
Meth for me with a map swap and a howerton engineering tank setup, to be fitted when my new motor gets dropped in.
Oh Richard, Jeff is sending my out the direct port injection unit too, it's going to be very very nice on a bushur stroker.
I was going to PM this to Richard, but since this post is so important to me due to the subject matter, I will post it openly.
Richard asked me why I went with a different vendor on my WMI. Well, was simple at the time. I chose the Cooliingmist CMGS kit which "Seemed" to have what I was looking for. I spoke to the owner of the Company personally about my concerns with WMI overall and he seemed very keen to my concern. He also was based in the USA so I thought if did have any trouble, support would be just a phone call a way. Lastly, a group buy on EvoM sealed the deal for me.
Unfortuneately, it was a HUGE mistake. I have posted in the past about my experience and if you guys want to read it do a search on my user name and you will see it.
The bottom line was the CMGS Coolingmist kit had some great features and to this day I think its a great kit. BUT not for an Evo running a stock turbo. What was supposed to be a 4 hour install plus tuning, ended up being a 3 day ordeal that cost me over $1200!! was a frickin nightmare. My car had almost 10 hrs worth of dyno time and the kit was carefully installed very discretely. On a conservitive tune using 50/50 with an M10 Injector I acheived 370whp. on a more aggressive tune, over 400whp (mustang dyno).
The problem was, 1) the injector O Ring was already leaking on the first day of use. 2) The Cooliingmist Pump was running WAY TOO hot under continous use (dyno time). 3) the checkvalve was not able to hold fluid in the line properly which left the line "semi" full with fluid. Meaning there were "air gaps" in the line. So even with their checkvalve, or solenoid it STILL could not hold fluid, untill the pump actually engaged. So what does this mean? It meant that under boost, in the low RPM's the line does not have adequate fluid to get to the cylinders. The stock turbo spools so quickly that I would be at full boost at an RPM where there would not be enough fluid. Now in the taller gears, its not an issue since the Engine takes longer to Rev, but in the Low gears, the car knoced very badly.
99.9% of ALL tuners out there know that "tuning" is their money maker. Tuning is usually a cash business and they get anywhere from $250-$500 for an hour of work. Not a bad deal huh? Well, what customers NEED to do, is ASK QUESTIONS and dont LEAVE unless YOU are satisfied. Do you research, ask for knock sums, review the power band, look at the curve, whats under the curve, why is there a sum of 2 at 3000rpm and 1 at 4500, I mean JUST ASK. As a FLUKE I asked my tuner to run through every gear. I just had a hunch and asked. The tuner was cool and did. The look in his eyes when you looked at the Laptop was one of disbelieve. Knock sums were WAY too high, 6-9 range 1st gear hit a sum of 12!!!
Here is the deal folks, and if ANYONE can learn from my mistake please just listen to these folks about WMI. YOU MUST CHOOSE YOUR KITS WISELY!!!
Aquamist has the system that the EVO needs. Why? They are primed at a constant 160psi. So you reading this saying so what? What that means is that like your fuel system that feeds your injectors of 91 gas, the Meth line is also pressurized to roughly 160psi, so when their FAV (Fast Acting Valve) opens the fluid is BAM!! there. No delays. Not only that, Aquamist uses IDC (Injector Duty Cycle) to figure out how much meth and when to spray. I can go on and on, and I wish Richard would offer me a free kit instead of AWD haha.
The bottom line is this. I don't care what any tuner says on here. The Bottom line is the car can only be as good as the sum of its parts. BOTTOM LINE. If you are running an Aquamist kit, tuned by a tuner that actually knows how to tune Meth, and you maintain the kit and your car accordingly, Meth can and will be very reliable.
Again, there are not many tuners that will touch cars with meth kits. Why? its a liability for the tuners for one, and two they don't know what they are doing. If they did, there simply would be no hesitation. They would check out what you have, ensure its installed correctly, ensure the proper ratio of fluid and tune. But they don't because 1) most shops don't take the time and 2) time = $$$$. So more time they spend on your car, less money to be made. Tuners wont admit that openly, but MOST (not all) tuners are all about the bottom line.
So now I am stuck. I wanted a meth kit put in, I have an excellent guy here on the boards (esevo) aka Evan Smith, to install and tune, but he is like 5 hours away from me. So what happends when I need help with something? or have a failure? Its a risk for me. I was planning for a Aquamist HFS-3 running a dual nozzle set up, but I have an E85 station 40 miles away. I have PLENTY of fuel cells laying around. I can fill up monthly, get a tune on E85 run a Temphra Mod with a map switch, and run E85 or 91. But its a hassle having to go get the fuel 40 miles each way!!
So I am on the fence. Meth would be best in my situation, especially living in a desert with 110F heat. Im still thinking on it. I will let you all know what I do...when I do somethng.
Jeff
Richard asked me why I went with a different vendor on my WMI. Well, was simple at the time. I chose the Cooliingmist CMGS kit which "Seemed" to have what I was looking for. I spoke to the owner of the Company personally about my concerns with WMI overall and he seemed very keen to my concern. He also was based in the USA so I thought if did have any trouble, support would be just a phone call a way. Lastly, a group buy on EvoM sealed the deal for me.
Unfortuneately, it was a HUGE mistake. I have posted in the past about my experience and if you guys want to read it do a search on my user name and you will see it.
The bottom line was the CMGS Coolingmist kit had some great features and to this day I think its a great kit. BUT not for an Evo running a stock turbo. What was supposed to be a 4 hour install plus tuning, ended up being a 3 day ordeal that cost me over $1200!! was a frickin nightmare. My car had almost 10 hrs worth of dyno time and the kit was carefully installed very discretely. On a conservitive tune using 50/50 with an M10 Injector I acheived 370whp. on a more aggressive tune, over 400whp (mustang dyno).
The problem was, 1) the injector O Ring was already leaking on the first day of use. 2) The Cooliingmist Pump was running WAY TOO hot under continous use (dyno time). 3) the checkvalve was not able to hold fluid in the line properly which left the line "semi" full with fluid. Meaning there were "air gaps" in the line. So even with their checkvalve, or solenoid it STILL could not hold fluid, untill the pump actually engaged. So what does this mean? It meant that under boost, in the low RPM's the line does not have adequate fluid to get to the cylinders. The stock turbo spools so quickly that I would be at full boost at an RPM where there would not be enough fluid. Now in the taller gears, its not an issue since the Engine takes longer to Rev, but in the Low gears, the car knoced very badly.
99.9% of ALL tuners out there know that "tuning" is their money maker. Tuning is usually a cash business and they get anywhere from $250-$500 for an hour of work. Not a bad deal huh? Well, what customers NEED to do, is ASK QUESTIONS and dont LEAVE unless YOU are satisfied. Do you research, ask for knock sums, review the power band, look at the curve, whats under the curve, why is there a sum of 2 at 3000rpm and 1 at 4500, I mean JUST ASK. As a FLUKE I asked my tuner to run through every gear. I just had a hunch and asked. The tuner was cool and did. The look in his eyes when you looked at the Laptop was one of disbelieve. Knock sums were WAY too high, 6-9 range 1st gear hit a sum of 12!!!
Here is the deal folks, and if ANYONE can learn from my mistake please just listen to these folks about WMI. YOU MUST CHOOSE YOUR KITS WISELY!!!
Aquamist has the system that the EVO needs. Why? They are primed at a constant 160psi. So you reading this saying so what? What that means is that like your fuel system that feeds your injectors of 91 gas, the Meth line is also pressurized to roughly 160psi, so when their FAV (Fast Acting Valve) opens the fluid is BAM!! there. No delays. Not only that, Aquamist uses IDC (Injector Duty Cycle) to figure out how much meth and when to spray. I can go on and on, and I wish Richard would offer me a free kit instead of AWD haha.
The bottom line is this. I don't care what any tuner says on here. The Bottom line is the car can only be as good as the sum of its parts. BOTTOM LINE. If you are running an Aquamist kit, tuned by a tuner that actually knows how to tune Meth, and you maintain the kit and your car accordingly, Meth can and will be very reliable.
Again, there are not many tuners that will touch cars with meth kits. Why? its a liability for the tuners for one, and two they don't know what they are doing. If they did, there simply would be no hesitation. They would check out what you have, ensure its installed correctly, ensure the proper ratio of fluid and tune. But they don't because 1) most shops don't take the time and 2) time = $$$$. So more time they spend on your car, less money to be made. Tuners wont admit that openly, but MOST (not all) tuners are all about the bottom line.
So now I am stuck. I wanted a meth kit put in, I have an excellent guy here on the boards (esevo) aka Evan Smith, to install and tune, but he is like 5 hours away from me. So what happends when I need help with something? or have a failure? Its a risk for me. I was planning for a Aquamist HFS-3 running a dual nozzle set up, but I have an E85 station 40 miles away. I have PLENTY of fuel cells laying around. I can fill up monthly, get a tune on E85 run a Temphra Mod with a map switch, and run E85 or 91. But its a hassle having to go get the fuel 40 miles each way!!
So I am on the fence. Meth would be best in my situation, especially living in a desert with 110F heat. Im still thinking on it. I will let you all know what I do...when I do somethng.
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for your reply, wasn't expecting it being so comprehensive. The title and the discussons followed appeared to have indicated the alledged engine damage could be alleviated with sensible nozzle placement or direct port.
We picked the PWM valve route because this technology has been tested since the day fuel injected cars were born. No point in re-inventing the wheel.
If the same engine were to be tuned between two on a 400whp, ethanol should not yield more than 50-70 whp than water/methanol. Prehaps some facts and figures may help.
One other important factor that may cause this gap, If a WMI system is unable to match the wide dynamic range of the engine and leave gaps where the ratio of methanol/fuel is not consistent in different gears, knock will result. Further more, badly positioned nozzle will further worsen the tune. A tune will be based on the worse cylinder (leanest) and others will run pig rich. Overrall, the result will be affected by the application and not the wmi technology.
AWD has stumbled on the worse case of wmi, look at the image posted again.
There is only one E85 station near me- well 60km away into Sydney through Sydney right near the CBD and it runs out alot because enthusiasts out of nearl 7 million people use it.
I'd emtpy half a tank driving there and back.
Meth for me with a map swap and a howerton engineering tank setup, to be fitted when my new motor gets dropped in.
Oh Richard, Jeff is sending my out the direct port injection unit too, it's going to be very very nice on a bushur stroker.
I'd emtpy half a tank driving there and back.
Meth for me with a map swap and a howerton engineering tank setup, to be fitted when my new motor gets dropped in.
Oh Richard, Jeff is sending my out the direct port injection unit too, it's going to be very very nice on a bushur stroker.
Richard
The only time I will give up my methanol inj is when my car has direct cyl fuel injection, 13 to 1 compression, and runs on M100, not E85. But since it's port injection, I will continue to spray methanol as I have on same engine for over 60K miles. 
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 483
Likes: 1
From: Canada/Japan
Does Aquamist offer a direct port option with their kits now? I saw a picture a few posts back that looked interesting. People were asking for more info about how to purchase. Any info on that Richard?
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: surpriseaz
Power is large related to octane and EGT. I am not sure if the 50-70 can be gospel. Octane enhancement between methanol and Ethanol is more or less the same but methanol's latent heat properties is about 20% higher than ethanol. Adding a small amount of water will further increase this ratio.
If the same engine were to be tuned between two on a 400whp, ethanol should not yield more than 50-70 whp than water/methanol. Prehaps some facts and figures may help.
One other important factor that may cause this gap, If a WMI system is unable to match the wide dynamic range of the engine and leave gaps where the ratio of methanol/fuel is not consistent in different gears, knock will result. Further more, badly positioned nozzle will further worsen the tune. A tune will be based on the worse cylinder (leanest) and others will run pig rich. Overrall, the result will be affected by the application and not the wmi technology.
AWD has stumbled on the worse case of wmi, look at the image posted again.
If the same engine were to be tuned between two on a 400whp, ethanol should not yield more than 50-70 whp than water/methanol. Prehaps some facts and figures may help.
One other important factor that may cause this gap, If a WMI system is unable to match the wide dynamic range of the engine and leave gaps where the ratio of methanol/fuel is not consistent in different gears, knock will result. Further more, badly positioned nozzle will further worsen the tune. A tune will be based on the worse cylinder (leanest) and others will run pig rich. Overrall, the result will be affected by the application and not the wmi technology.
AWD has stumbled on the worse case of wmi, look at the image posted again.
