Laggy fp-red?
Those who advised me that the Red wouldn't be as laggy as I thought were sorely mistaken, or a problem has developed with my setup... thoughts?
This was a 4th gear pull, and it got up to 380 load. I realize it is a little rich, but I am still tweaking my previous map for the new Red. Still, that seems a little too laggy to me...
This was a 4th gear pull, and it got up to 380 load. I realize it is a little rich, but I am still tweaking my previous map for the new Red. Still, that seems a little too laggy to me...
I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other....
but in the final analysis one must acknowledge that the red is:
1. Journal bearing Turbo
2. Has a compressor wheel about the size of a GT3076R
3. Has a Turbine wheel about the size of a GT3076R
The only factor that will enable it to spool quicker that a GT3076R is actually the fact that the hot side reatains Twin Scroll and is small...
It can only be so small otherwise it would hurt the performance potential of the Turbo so I would say it cant be smaller than a T3 .48 at the least.
So how much of spool and response over a GT3076R does that buy - the answer has to be not much...
.
I am curious to know what spring pressure that your WG is currently set at? I know that with an MBC you can turn the adjustment knob all the way out to full soft(lowest setting) and this will give you a pretty accurate reading of the base pressure with the particular WGA that you have. I don't know if you can do something similar with the EBC? Is it non-intrusive and transparent at its absolute lowest setting? Anyway I'd like to know what the boost reading would be at full soft on your EBC.
I have the same FP 18# actuator that you do and mine goes down to a low 14#, not the advertised 18# at the lowest setting on my MBC. I still think that your WGA may be set up too lazy and loose.
Spring pressure should be set about 2-3# below your target boost level if you want to achieve max controllable spoolup. In your case with a 25# target boost level, you should have the WG preloaded to about 22#.
I have the same FP 18# actuator that you do and mine goes down to a low 14#, not the advertised 18# at the lowest setting on my MBC. I still think that your WGA may be set up too lazy and loose.
Spring pressure should be set about 2-3# below your target boost level if you want to achieve max controllable spoolup. In your case with a 25# target boost level, you should have the WG preloaded to about 22#.
With the lowest settings on my EBC i was getting like 14-15psi. With the MBC set to lowest it was around 18psi.
I DID take off the WGA and cut some threads off and tightened the pre-load even more. So that may help, but before I dug in with the tune that pre-load made no difference but a big spike.
Buchnerj: What cams/intake/fmic do you have?
With the lowest settings on my EBC i was getting like 14-15psi. With the MBC set to lowest it was around 18psi.
I DID take off the WGA and cut some threads off and tightened the pre-load even more. So that may help, but before I dug in with the tune that pre-load made no difference but a big spike.
Buchnerj: What cams/intake/fmic do you have?
I DID take off the WGA and cut some threads off and tightened the pre-load even more. So that may help, but before I dug in with the tune that pre-load made no difference but a big spike.
Buchnerj: What cams/intake/fmic do you have?
I had my setup for quick spool with reliability, but that has been lost apparently. I have HKS 272 cams (mild, but some gains, no loss in spool) the FP 84mm intake to mate with the turbo, and an ETS 4" FMIC.
I needed the 4" FMIC because I was really pushing things on the Green. I was getting solid numbers over 500/500 and my intake temps were shooting up. I was just pushing things too far with the Green, as the 2.1L and built head can push it for all its worth, and it eventually gave up the ghost. FP convinced me to upgrade to the Red over the Green for reliability, but I have lost so much spool it has taken a good chunk of the fun out of the car.
I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other....
but in the final analysis one must acknowledge that the red is:
1. Journal bearing Turbo
2. Has a compressor wheel about the size of a GT3076R
3. Has a Turbine wheel about the size of a GT3076R
The only factor that will enable it to spool quicker that a GT3076R is actually the fact that the hot side reatains Twin Scroll and is small...
It can only be so small otherwise it would hurt the performance potential of the Turbo so I would say it cant be smaller than a T3 .48 at the least.
So how much of spool and response over a GT3076R does that buy - the answer has to be not much...
.
but in the final analysis one must acknowledge that the red is:
1. Journal bearing Turbo
2. Has a compressor wheel about the size of a GT3076R
3. Has a Turbine wheel about the size of a GT3076R
The only factor that will enable it to spool quicker that a GT3076R is actually the fact that the hot side reatains Twin Scroll and is small...
It can only be so small otherwise it would hurt the performance potential of the Turbo so I would say it cant be smaller than a T3 .48 at the least.
So how much of spool and response over a GT3076R does that buy - the answer has to be not much...
.
I wonder if the AMS F1 would loose so much spool as the VSR does.
Buchnerj: not EVERY red owner has this spool like we do. Fast Freddie being one that hit 30psi by 4k. There are a few others that came out and stated they get full boost by 4k or slightly before. Aby@milspec also told me it shouldn't be that laggy.
.
I need to play with the timing numbers a little bit more and get the AFR's in the 11.9-12.1 zone, but still my initial reaction to this turbo is poopy. I am starting to reconsider my choice of the upgrade.
Yeah, that was only 34-35psi instead of this 37 spike. On night runs where I would do my tuning on the road I would see it hit a full 34-5 at just under 4,000rpm with the HTA Green. With the Red setup now I don't see 36-37psi until 5075-5150rpm.
I need to play with the timing numbers a little bit more and get the AFR's in the 11.9-12.1 zone, but still my initial reaction to this turbo is poopy. I am starting to reconsider my choice of the upgrade.
I need to play with the timing numbers a little bit more and get the AFR's in the 11.9-12.1 zone, but still my initial reaction to this turbo is poopy. I am starting to reconsider my choice of the upgrade.
Forgot mention my HTA30 is on stock block at about 5000ft altitude with a mild pump gas tune.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: riverside, ca
well to add my 0.02 like what someone else posted earlier that bigger intake mani might be part of whats causing the little bit of lag, i for example am runnin a similar setup, but stock intake mani and hks 272 cams, i hit 27 psi peak boost about 4100 rpms.
I think that is part of the OPs issue, but I am still struggling to get this thing to above 35 psi below 5k rpm.
Doing some more tuning. Got the boost to hit sooner...still working on the spike. But the boost holds up top very nicely now. The power seams a little low but the correction factor is only 1.02. Dynojet numbers indiciate around 370tq accross the board. I like the power curve 
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