FP Green Oil Selection
And running a 0w-40 when the oil is not a real synthetic is stupid as that gap between weights requires a lot of VIIs in order to have that kind of multi-grade rating.
SM is not the quality level, it is a set of Standards set by the API in regards to gasoline passenger vehicles.
And running a 0w-40 when the oil is not a real synthetic is stupid as that gap between weights requires a lot of VIIs in order to have that kind of multi-grade rating.
And running a 0w-40 when the oil is not a real synthetic is stupid as that gap between weights requires a lot of VIIs in order to have that kind of multi-grade rating.
they will reap the the consecuences long term when its to late of using anything less than a group 4 full synthetic.
Well the thing is you know they want to do whats best for their car, the problem is they are misinformed about a lot of stuff.
"The path to hell is paved with good intentions"
"The path to hell is paved with good intentions"
i know we all whant the best for our cars, but the information was provided in 2 serperate threads, much info was given on the oils that are premium group 4's and the best available with ZDDP and detergents,,, and its seems like some are still wondering, and choosing whatever they feel is better not what has been established as better.
i know we all whant the best for our cars, but the information was provided in 2 serperate threads, much info was given on the oils that are premium group 4's and the best available with ZDDP and detergents,,, and its seems like some are still wondering, and choosing whatever they feel is better not what has been established as better.
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From: Rio Rancho NM
SM is not the quality level, it is a set of Standards set by the API in regards to gasoline passenger vehicles.
And running a 0w-40 when the oil is not a real synthetic is stupid as that gap between weights requires a lot of VIIs in order to have that kind of multi-grade rating.
And running a 0w-40 when the oil is not a real synthetic is stupid as that gap between weights requires a lot of VIIs in order to have that kind of multi-grade rating.
Check out this thread from Bob is the oil guy forum: 0W-40 FTMFW!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1137824
QUESTION: From OP first post:
"Hi,
I want to use Full Synthetic Motor Oil, and I have been searching high and low (both in this forum and on the web) for a list of TRUE Class IV (PAO) Motor Oils... - but to no avail. There's just no definite list out there; just opinions and hearsay.
I am aware, by now, that this is a highly debated question, and that motor oil manufacturers are simply not telling the (entire) truth about their products. Example: "Full Synthetic" may not necessarily mean it is entirely(!) synthetic; best examples being "Castrol Syntec" and "Mobile 1" - which are PAO-base, but have a much higher percentage of Class III base stocks mixed in. To me, that's simply a lie (or cheating). Even though these may be "good oils", they are just a "blend", and not truly synthetic... and I don't care about those.
From what I could find out thus far, only "AMSOIL" seems to produce true PAO/Class IV-based Synthetic Motor Oil.
Now... here's my two-fold question for you:
1.) What other Class IV/PAO true Synthetic motor oils are 'out there', that I could buy in the car shop around the corner (..instead of having to order by mail as it is with the Amsoil juice)??
2.) Apparently, labels on oil bottles that claim to be "[Fully] Synthetic" give no indication of their true base. -- So, HOW CAN ONE BE SURE it is a Class IV oil, and not a blend??
P.S.: This is not about which oil works best for you; I'm sure everyone has favorites and/or opinions. This is just about the FACTS.. and which brands are truly PAO/Class IV-base motor oils.
Thanks, Guys... - much appreciated!!"
First Reply from MGregoir:
"Group IV oils that are all group IV have poor seal compatibility and additive solubility so they do not exist. Between additive carriers and esters, alkylated napthalenes or other stuff added to help the oil be more soluble and seal compatible, I doubt any oil is more than 90% PAO.
Castrol Syntec 0W-30 that says it is made in Germany is primarily PAO.
Basically all grades of Mobil 1 are primarily PAO. I doubt any grades are less than 70% PAO. The 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-50 and 15W-50 are all vastly group IV/V base, there is debate about the 5W-30 and 10W-30 but nobody really knows for sure.
Valvoline SynPower is primarily group III with PAO blended in.
Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State Q, and Castrol Syntec that is not the 0W-30 made in Germany plus most other off the shelf "synthetics" are group III. I don't know the origin of the Platinum and Quaker State bases as far as production technique but if they use Shell's XHVI base oil, which is a group III made from slack wax produced in hydrocracking base oil, it is fundamentally (and somewhat oxymoronically) a fully synthetic group III.
The lines are very, very blurry."
Last Reply of the Thread from JohnBrowning:
"If you are looking for true synthetics on the retail shelf M1 0W40 is about the only one that is still nothing lower then G-IV and V base stocks including Alky Napthens which are G-V. Last I knew M1 0W40 was made from 4 different synthetic base stocks but all of them where G-IV or higher no G-III at all. I would imagine that their 0W20 is more of the same all synthetic in the truest sense.
Amsoil has products that are G-III and they have some that are PAO and some that are PAO and other high quality base stocks like ester's.
So if you want it on a retail shelf you are very very limited as in 2 products from M1....I expect that most of their other products like their EP line are made from everything from G-III on up.
In a daily driver I would not be too concerned I mean I used PP and I know it is a mut with regaurd to base stocks can you say Heinz 57??? All that really matters in a daily driver is performance so good wear numbers ,cleanliness and the ability to stay in the sump a long long time! Most OTC synthetics cannot last long they have weak staying power. This has little to do with base stock and everything to do with additive package!
If you do not mind mail ordering your oil their a lot of oils that are PAO or Ester based with no G-III in them at all!"
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1137824
QUESTION: From OP first post:
"Hi,
I want to use Full Synthetic Motor Oil, and I have been searching high and low (both in this forum and on the web) for a list of TRUE Class IV (PAO) Motor Oils... - but to no avail. There's just no definite list out there; just opinions and hearsay.
I am aware, by now, that this is a highly debated question, and that motor oil manufacturers are simply not telling the (entire) truth about their products. Example: "Full Synthetic" may not necessarily mean it is entirely(!) synthetic; best examples being "Castrol Syntec" and "Mobile 1" - which are PAO-base, but have a much higher percentage of Class III base stocks mixed in. To me, that's simply a lie (or cheating). Even though these may be "good oils", they are just a "blend", and not truly synthetic... and I don't care about those.
From what I could find out thus far, only "AMSOIL" seems to produce true PAO/Class IV-based Synthetic Motor Oil.
Now... here's my two-fold question for you:
1.) What other Class IV/PAO true Synthetic motor oils are 'out there', that I could buy in the car shop around the corner (..instead of having to order by mail as it is with the Amsoil juice)??
2.) Apparently, labels on oil bottles that claim to be "[Fully] Synthetic" give no indication of their true base. -- So, HOW CAN ONE BE SURE it is a Class IV oil, and not a blend??
P.S.: This is not about which oil works best for you; I'm sure everyone has favorites and/or opinions. This is just about the FACTS.. and which brands are truly PAO/Class IV-base motor oils.
Thanks, Guys... - much appreciated!!"
First Reply from MGregoir:
"Group IV oils that are all group IV have poor seal compatibility and additive solubility so they do not exist. Between additive carriers and esters, alkylated napthalenes or other stuff added to help the oil be more soluble and seal compatible, I doubt any oil is more than 90% PAO.
Castrol Syntec 0W-30 that says it is made in Germany is primarily PAO.
Basically all grades of Mobil 1 are primarily PAO. I doubt any grades are less than 70% PAO. The 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-50 and 15W-50 are all vastly group IV/V base, there is debate about the 5W-30 and 10W-30 but nobody really knows for sure.
Valvoline SynPower is primarily group III with PAO blended in.
Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State Q, and Castrol Syntec that is not the 0W-30 made in Germany plus most other off the shelf "synthetics" are group III. I don't know the origin of the Platinum and Quaker State bases as far as production technique but if they use Shell's XHVI base oil, which is a group III made from slack wax produced in hydrocracking base oil, it is fundamentally (and somewhat oxymoronically) a fully synthetic group III.
The lines are very, very blurry."
Last Reply of the Thread from JohnBrowning:
"If you are looking for true synthetics on the retail shelf M1 0W40 is about the only one that is still nothing lower then G-IV and V base stocks including Alky Napthens which are G-V. Last I knew M1 0W40 was made from 4 different synthetic base stocks but all of them where G-IV or higher no G-III at all. I would imagine that their 0W20 is more of the same all synthetic in the truest sense.
Amsoil has products that are G-III and they have some that are PAO and some that are PAO and other high quality base stocks like ester's.
So if you want it on a retail shelf you are very very limited as in 2 products from M1....I expect that most of their other products like their EP line are made from everything from G-III on up.
In a daily driver I would not be too concerned I mean I used PP and I know it is a mut with regaurd to base stocks can you say Heinz 57??? All that really matters in a daily driver is performance so good wear numbers ,cleanliness and the ability to stay in the sump a long long time! Most OTC synthetics cannot last long they have weak staying power. This has little to do with base stock and everything to do with additive package!
If you do not mind mail ordering your oil their a lot of oils that are PAO or Ester based with no G-III in them at all!"
Thread Starter
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From: Rio Rancho NM
This is so frustrating I keep "deciding" on mobile 1 0w-40 then amsoil 0w-30, justifing my decision in some way then changing my mind again... My green will be here on Tuesday, I got to pick!
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From: Rio Rancho NM
Who's nonsense are we supposed to filter out? Yours or everyone else that has posted?
It's too bad Mobil isn't on these boards to defend themselves. The only defense they have is people that believe in their product and have to come here to defend it.
