New BW EFR Turbo Thread
Feb 6, 2015, 12:32 PM
#2866
ok, I looked back at my email and now I'm confused. That's the same picture that Geoff sent me back in November when he was talking about his personal Evo. I guess he made one for his car and your buddy's?
BTW, since your buddy's Evo has apparently been assembled since October-ish, is there a dyno sheet?
BTW, since your buddy's Evo has apparently been assembled since October-ish, is there a dyno sheet?
Feb 6, 2015, 01:17 PM
#2868
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The green evo is from Full-Race's facebook page today. Sorry to confuse you but my car 9180 1.45 and his car 7163 0.80 are not running yet. Jeff Evans will be tuning on Haltech
Feb 6, 2015, 06:13 PM
#2870
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it is very cold right now, and I work outdoors with a small heater. Here is the mockup engine, with the 1.45 a/r housing. At Evans tuning, he took me for a ride in philthys 9180 evo, 1.05 a/r and soon 1.45. This made me think maybe 8374 1.45 a/r will be the right combination for me in the end. i am trying to keep ac and remove the BOV from efr to keep front mission mounting
Feb 9, 2015, 03:01 PM
#2871
it is very cold right now, and I work outdoors with a small heater. Here is the mockup engine, with the 1.45 a/r housing. At Evans tuning, he took me for a ride in philthys 9180 evo, 1.05 a/r and soon 1.45. This made me think maybe 8374 1.45 a/r will be the right combination for me in the end. i am trying to keep ac and remove the BOV from efr to keep front mission mounting
Feb 9, 2015, 05:54 PM
#2872
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I'm looking to get the 1.45 a/r housing for my 8374 (12741008003) do you think I should keep the small 1.25in runner Full race manifold, or step up to 1.5in runners? Seems like you're doing the opposite of what I was thinking of doing.
Feb 9, 2015, 11:16 PM
#2873
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Some 7163 data from our Audi TTRS 7163 kit. 2.5L, stock head, built bottom end with 10:1 pistons. Pump 91
Just starting in on boost control so the map will be smoother soon, but it shows the potential of the turbo on a 2.5L. I think we will probably grab ~560whp/600wtq on 100 and maybe 600whp/600wtq on e85. Speed sensor is installed, and we are riding the 145k line from about 6200 on. It is pretty much out of compressor flow, but octane/advance plus cooling effect will probably go a long way.
This is what 550wtq 7163 looks like in the eyes of a TTRS axle. Not launched either, roll on in 2nd on 275-35-19s.
Just starting in on boost control so the map will be smoother soon, but it shows the potential of the turbo on a 2.5L. I think we will probably grab ~560whp/600wtq on 100 and maybe 600whp/600wtq on e85. Speed sensor is installed, and we are riding the 145k line from about 6200 on. It is pretty much out of compressor flow, but octane/advance plus cooling effect will probably go a long way.
This is what 550wtq 7163 looks like in the eyes of a TTRS axle. Not launched either, roll on in 2nd on 275-35-19s.
Feb 10, 2015, 06:44 AM
#2874
Some 7163 data from our Audi TTRS 7163 kit. 2.5L, stock head, built bottom end with 10:1 pistons. Pump 91
Just starting in on boost control so the map will be smoother soon, but it shows the potential of the turbo on a 2.5L. I think we will probably grab ~560whp/600wtq on 100 and maybe 600whp/600wtq on e85. Speed sensor is installed, and we are riding the 145k line from about 6200 on. It is pretty much out of compressor flow, but octane/advance plus cooling effect will probably go a long way.
...
This is what 550wtq 7163 looks like in the eyes of a TTRS axle. Not launched either, roll on in 2nd on 275-35-19s.
Just starting in on boost control so the map will be smoother soon, but it shows the potential of the turbo on a 2.5L. I think we will probably grab ~560whp/600wtq on 100 and maybe 600whp/600wtq on e85. Speed sensor is installed, and we are riding the 145k line from about 6200 on. It is pretty much out of compressor flow, but octane/advance plus cooling effect will probably go a long way.
...
This is what 550wtq 7163 looks like in the eyes of a TTRS axle. Not launched either, roll on in 2nd on 275-35-19s.
Feb 10, 2015, 07:05 AM
#2875
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Strange that the axle broke. I've run these to more power and not had an issue as yet so quite keen to know if this is a weakness in them.
Stock head - stock valve springs too? What boost at high rpm?
Stock head - stock valve springs too? What boost at high rpm?
Feb 10, 2015, 12:55 PM
#2876
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thanks for posting. 7163 is a very interesting turbo. great power for 91 oct, but if you have reached the comp flow limit and boost is only 21 psi out the top (probably not badly pushing hotside flow), seems like all that's left is to add tming for 100 oct and e85? or do you think the hotside flow is being pushed and lower egts on e85 will reduce pumping losses and free up some power?
On a 2.5L, I think the 7163 is to be used as a torque monster. Yes, the compressor flow up top is limiting more whp outside of more advance with octane, but we ought to be able to overboost down low to produce north of 600wtq from 3500-5000 and then taper off. Basically just run shaft speeds at 140k from start to finish will produce a fairly flat hp curve and a brutal torque punch. Like the EVO, the TTRS has tire to put up with the torque. I used to think the 7163 could do 600whp, but I think it is a pushed 550whp on exotic fuels. Transient response is amazing and raelly hard to tell it apart from a stock car on the boost thresh hold and transient response.
Tim, Green boost profile is plotted to the posted chart, but up top it is only seeing low 20s for boost. The tell-tale for whether the TFSI springs are up to snuff is the exhaust pressure, and we are seeing around 35psi of EMAP up top. That is well within the realm of the stock valve spring, especially since stock k16s at less boost are seeing waaay more EMAP. In our longitude cars, we have decided ~45psi of EMAP is where those exhaust springs get floaty.
I would love to see some 800-900NM plots on the TTRS. I don't recall any of the APR builds getting that much on the choked up .63AR kit hotside, or the .82 used in lots of special builds. We have seen more than 1000NM on the 2.5T, just not on the TFSI fueling/pumps. It's a fine line to juggle low rpm mechanical fuel volume and smaller turbos.
Feb 10, 2015, 01:24 PM
#2877
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Ok I'm surprised you don't have float on the inlet. I've seen this many times on these. The engine also has no spring seats which is nasty
Fred,
On a 2.5L, I think the 7163 is to be used as a torque monster. Yes, the compressor flow up top is limiting more whp outside of more advance with octane, but we ought to be able to overboost down low to produce north of 600wtq from 3500-5000 and then taper off. Basically just run shaft speeds at 140k from start to finish will produce a fairly flat hp curve and a brutal torque punch. Like the EVO, the TTRS has tire to put up with the torque. I used to think the 7163 could do 600whp, but I think it is a pushed 550whp on exotic fuels. Transient response is amazing and raelly hard to tell it apart from a stock car on the boost thresh hold and transient response.
Tim, Green boost profile is plotted to the posted chart, but up top it is only seeing low 20s for boost. The tell-tale for whether the TFSI springs are up to snuff is the exhaust pressure, and we are seeing around 35psi of EMAP up top. That is well within the realm of the stock valve spring, especially since stock k16s at less boost are seeing waaay more EMAP. In our longitude cars, we have decided ~45psi of EMAP is where those exhaust springs get floaty.
I would love to see some 800-900NM plots on the TTRS. I don't recall any of the APR builds getting that much on the choked up .63AR kit hotside, or the .82 used in lots of special builds. We have seen more than 1000NM on the 2.5T, just not on the TFSI fueling/pumps. It's a fine line to juggle low rpm mechanical fuel volume and smaller turbos.
On a 2.5L, I think the 7163 is to be used as a torque monster. Yes, the compressor flow up top is limiting more whp outside of more advance with octane, but we ought to be able to overboost down low to produce north of 600wtq from 3500-5000 and then taper off. Basically just run shaft speeds at 140k from start to finish will produce a fairly flat hp curve and a brutal torque punch. Like the EVO, the TTRS has tire to put up with the torque. I used to think the 7163 could do 600whp, but I think it is a pushed 550whp on exotic fuels. Transient response is amazing and raelly hard to tell it apart from a stock car on the boost thresh hold and transient response.
Tim, Green boost profile is plotted to the posted chart, but up top it is only seeing low 20s for boost. The tell-tale for whether the TFSI springs are up to snuff is the exhaust pressure, and we are seeing around 35psi of EMAP up top. That is well within the realm of the stock valve spring, especially since stock k16s at less boost are seeing waaay more EMAP. In our longitude cars, we have decided ~45psi of EMAP is where those exhaust springs get floaty.
I would love to see some 800-900NM plots on the TTRS. I don't recall any of the APR builds getting that much on the choked up .63AR kit hotside, or the .82 used in lots of special builds. We have seen more than 1000NM on the 2.5T, just not on the TFSI fueling/pumps. It's a fine line to juggle low rpm mechanical fuel volume and smaller turbos.
Feb 11, 2015, 02:24 PM
#2878
Evolving Member
That's cool that you have the speed sensor data for that run. Do you figure max shaft speed for that turbo is about 150,000 rpm? Or maybe "rated" shaft speed would be a better way to say it. I'm just looking at the charts for the 7064 and 7670, which is all I have to go by.
Last edited by Talonboost; Feb 11, 2015 at 02:28 PM.
Feb 12, 2015, 08:57 AM
#2879
The TTRS will pick up 8-10 with every octane point you add. So if you go from 93 octane to 100 octane you'll pick up about 55-70hp... boost for boost.
Our shop TTRS on 104 octane did 600+lb fit. IIRC we did 660lb ft spiking the torque. So that's in your wheel house for 800-900Nm. Another one we did in Germany (that won the Tuner GP the past two years) has a 3582GTX on it with a 1.06AR turbine housing... did 725awhp with some leaded race gas.
Put a 8374 on it and you'll like it a lot more.
And to Tim's point...he is right. Valves will float when you rev it higher. Your plots are only going to 6800? We rev the production kit to 7100, and our Wolf Power/APR Germany TT-RSS(Tuner GP) to 7800 rpm. Tim has seen many TT-RS heads so he is most certainly "the man" when it comes to this.
I would love to drive an 8374 TT-RS, but alas it doesn't package with our Inconel manifold...so I'll be trying bigger variants of the Garrett turbos.
Have you seen the cast port injection manifold available from a shop in Sweeden/Finland?
Our shop TTRS on 104 octane did 600+lb fit. IIRC we did 660lb ft spiking the torque. So that's in your wheel house for 800-900Nm. Another one we did in Germany (that won the Tuner GP the past two years) has a 3582GTX on it with a 1.06AR turbine housing... did 725awhp with some leaded race gas.
Put a 8374 on it and you'll like it a lot more.
And to Tim's point...he is right. Valves will float when you rev it higher. Your plots are only going to 6800? We rev the production kit to 7100, and our Wolf Power/APR Germany TT-RSS(Tuner GP) to 7800 rpm. Tim has seen many TT-RS heads so he is most certainly "the man" when it comes to this.
I would love to drive an 8374 TT-RS, but alas it doesn't package with our Inconel manifold...so I'll be trying bigger variants of the Garrett turbos.
Have you seen the cast port injection manifold available from a shop in Sweeden/Finland?
Feb 12, 2015, 10:25 PM
#2880
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Alright, played around with some 100 octane today and cleaned up the boost profile a bit. Running less boost at 20psi, but making a bit more power.
I need to call in to Road Rage Gauges, as the scaler formula they give isn't giving with our dyno software. I scaled it to match their chart of 0-5v vs rpm and I think that is accurate. The first chart I posted was maxing out at round 134k rpm using the 0-5v chart, so disregard the speed I noted earlier.
Plotting in MatchBot, it is pretty spot on for speeds throughout, so I feel like that is nailed and probably has more headroom a bit more power or a slightly longer powerband should I need it. Our customers are weekend warrior and most of them wanted just more power under the curve. The kit wasn't intended for half mile or long tracks by any means.
Anyway, I think it will touch 600whp eventually. Map looks like it still has ~5lb/min to spare on the map. We have touched 600wtq by overboosting to 30psi open loop, but the car would be faster on track with a flat torque curve like what we have now.
I need to call in to Road Rage Gauges, as the scaler formula they give isn't giving with our dyno software. I scaled it to match their chart of 0-5v vs rpm and I think that is accurate. The first chart I posted was maxing out at round 134k rpm using the 0-5v chart, so disregard the speed I noted earlier.
Plotting in MatchBot, it is pretty spot on for speeds throughout, so I feel like that is nailed and probably has more headroom a bit more power or a slightly longer powerband should I need it. Our customers are weekend warrior and most of them wanted just more power under the curve. The kit wasn't intended for half mile or long tracks by any means.
Anyway, I think it will touch 600whp eventually. Map looks like it still has ~5lb/min to spare on the map. We have touched 600wtq by overboosting to 30psi open loop, but the car would be faster on track with a flat torque curve like what we have now.