3rd Spun bearing on motor in 1 yr!
Evolved Member
iTrader: (33)
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 1
From: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
Adding this to my sig. LOL. It was too funny
OP. I feel for you man. We have a local that has been through a few motors as well. I don't know that i would have that kind of resolve.
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Fayetteville, N.C.
Only 6 bolts came nitrided from factory. In factory manual for a 6 bolt engine the manual itself states the crank hardness layer will be lost if crank is turned for oversize bearing. The thickness of the layer is .003 not .030. hard layer will be lost when crank is turned .010. this removes .005 thickness.
NO SUCH WARNING EXISTS IN 2G MANUAL.
All 7 bolt cranks are not nitrided. EVO included. I wouldnt be spending 200$ per crank to have it done if it was already nitrided. Its very easy to test if crank is hardened or not.
Anyone who states 7 bolts cranks were hardened doesnt know what they are talking about. They have never tested one. And they have never had one nitrided. I have nitrided some 30 cranks now. I am quite certain the information I am posting is correct if anyone cares. I also nitride my balance shafts as they benefit from the process as well.
Anyone who wants to argue about it will not get an argument from me. I dont argue with stupid. So if you want to be stupid have at it.
NO SUCH WARNING EXISTS IN 2G MANUAL.
All 7 bolt cranks are not nitrided. EVO included. I wouldnt be spending 200$ per crank to have it done if it was already nitrided. Its very easy to test if crank is hardened or not.
Anyone who states 7 bolts cranks were hardened doesnt know what they are talking about. They have never tested one. And they have never had one nitrided. I have nitrided some 30 cranks now. I am quite certain the information I am posting is correct if anyone cares. I also nitride my balance shafts as they benefit from the process as well.
Anyone who wants to argue about it will not get an argument from me. I dont argue with stupid. So if you want to be stupid have at it.
-Brian
Tom also has a 600+ stock block evo holding together. And a plethora of 500+ers....
But on a side note, I feel for you OP. Would be pretty cool to see a vendor give this man a discount. he's been through the ringer.
But on a side note, I feel for you OP. Would be pretty cool to see a vendor give this man a discount. he's been through the ringer.
I would like to have a low mileage all stock eb 9 and do fp red setup on stock block.
as far as your oil consumption goes, you need to have a game plan for blow by created by the engine.. i used to have so much blowby the oil went up the turbo return line into the center housing rotating assembly of the turbo and allowed the turbo to slowly burn the oil..
and ya id be very upset.. i hope David cuts you some slack on refreshing it.. he cut me lots of slack when i ran out of oil practically on my car and spun a bearing 2 yrs ago.
and as i said ill give you really good deals on parts you need. im not interested in making any $ off you.. so ill hook you up.
as far as oil goes.. i run 20w50 all season.. i just picked up 13 cases of brad penn actually.. lol.
Last edited by tscompusa; Feb 3, 2012 at 03:48 PM.
i just put like 800 miles on my evo in the last 7 days and it only burned like 1 quart of oil.. i feel you may have other issues not engine related.. and this is with e85.. which is proven to dilute oil and allow the engine to burn off the oil.
as far as your oil consumption goes, you need to have a game plan for blow by created by the engine.. i used to have so much blowby the oil went up the turbo return line into the center housing rotating assembly of the turbo and allowed the turbo to slowly burn the oil..
and ya id be very upset.. i hope David cuts you some slack on refreshing it.. he cut me lots of slack when i ran out of oil practically on my car and spun a bearing 2 yrs ago.
and as i said ill give you really good deals on parts you need. im not interested in making any $ off you.. so ill hook you up.
as far as oil goes.. i run 20w50 all season.. i just picked up 13 cases of brad penn actually.. lol.
as far as your oil consumption goes, you need to have a game plan for blow by created by the engine.. i used to have so much blowby the oil went up the turbo return line into the center housing rotating assembly of the turbo and allowed the turbo to slowly burn the oil..
and ya id be very upset.. i hope David cuts you some slack on refreshing it.. he cut me lots of slack when i ran out of oil practically on my car and spun a bearing 2 yrs ago.
and as i said ill give you really good deals on parts you need. im not interested in making any $ off you.. so ill hook you up.
as far as oil goes.. i run 20w50 all season.. i just picked up 13 cases of brad penn actually.. lol.
I appreciate that tom
Wow, I didn't see this before.
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Rogers AR
[QUOTE=David Buschur;9939358]Wow, I didn't see this before.
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.[/QUOTE]
If that isnt badass customer service i dont know what is OP sounds like you are in good hands n could have your car back up and running pretty quick. If dave finds the too thin of oil was the main culprit chalk it up as a learning experiance
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.[/QUOTE]
If that isnt badass customer service i dont know what is
OP sounds like you are in good hands n could have your car back up and running pretty quick. If dave finds the too thin of oil was the main culprit chalk it up as a learning experiance
Wow, I didn't see this before.
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.
7800 miles on the engine is low, obviously. I thought it was the oil cooler at first too but see you deleted it.
Did you talk to anyone at our shop or just make the post? I'd like to see the engine again and see if we can figure out what happened. My guess is something is getting in the oil.
Is there any chance your valve cover has been painted or powder coated? Who did the cylinder head on the car? Did anyone every glass bead or sandblast the head to clean it?
10/30 is too light, we suggest 20-50 Brad Penn oil only, you can use others but that is what we want in the engines. 10-30 is too light, if it's REALLY cold where you are and the car simply would NOT start because the car couldn't crank over with 20-50 in it then maybe you could run a 10-40 but running 10-30, you may as well run water in it.
You can send me an e-mail or PM if you like to discuss further. Any engine we build if it fails, even if it has nothing to do with us and with 7800 miles on it I'd say it did not, we will at the very least fix it for the cost of machining and parts. I charge NO labor on my end and profit is kept low enough to just cover our expenses. That is how we treat every customer who buys one of our engines and that is whether it's a month or 10 years old.
It will be interesting to see the bearings of the 3 that are still okay when it comes apart. Contamination, tune, whatever it will be obvious once its apart. I havent ever seen a cut crank last in DSMs, I havent seen an Evo one before.
Aaron
Aaron
I don't want to lead this off topic but want to comment on turning the cranks. We have turned HUNDREDS of DSM/EVO cranks, I seriously mean HUNDREDS. There is absolutely NO downside to turning the crank if the work is done correctly. There is a thread on here by Josh Chi, can't remember his screen name. He decided to take apart and engine we did and start doing his own work, this was after it detonated from plugged up E85 injectors. His machine shop checked the crank out which is one of our 10/10 cranks and you can go there and read the comments about how perfect it was.
Back in the day we went through nitriding the cranks after they were turned for the DSM's found it didn't do anything from what we could tell and just stopped. EVO's we've turned hundreds of those alone and no nitriding. No problems.
Back in '03 we took the rods out of my first EVO8, I mean like ruined them. We fixed the engine and put it back in. Within a hundred miles, same thing. Fixed it again, same thing 50 miles. Holy ****, we were wishing for DSM's to be produced again. We then went through multiple bearing manufacturers, cut down DSM bearings to fit, all with the same results. To say it was frustrating would be an understatement. At the Shootout we had them go out the day before the race. We dropped the pan, got a sand paper strip, polished the crank by hand in the car and put bearings back on it, there was an audience for that and it wasn't pretty. The car made it through the next day. Then we finally had the light switch go on, engine was being contaminated, pulled the oil cooler off and holy ****, as much as Dan had tried to clean it it was still full of metal. We sent it to the machine shop and had them clean it, flushed it with high pressure solvent for hours. Got it back, set it in the shop sink with the outlets pointing down while we went to work on getting the engine back in. Finally we were ready for the oil cooler and grabbed it out of the sink to install it.............there was a PILE of metal where it has been sitting. So much for washing. We deleted the oil cooler and guess what happened? Freaking engine lasted for who knows how long.
I'll also add I don't know how many customers/shops have had engine failures, call me, we end up with a not so pleasant phone call, "I am to blame" then it's found the oil cooler was never replaced or the other NUMBER ONE issues are 1. Head was done elsewhere and it ends up full of glass bead or sand and ends up in the oil. 2. The valve cover was powder coated/painted and it was sandblasted. The old oil on the bottom side of the valve covers is thick and like grease. It traps all that sand/glass bead under it then gets broken loose to go through the engine. That genius james reese ruined TWO of our strokers like that, blamed us when I kept telling him there was dirt in the engine. He finally took the baffling off the valve cover to find I was right. Dirt ball probably never told the customer and built the next engine himself for the guy......another story.
Back in the day we went through nitriding the cranks after they were turned for the DSM's found it didn't do anything from what we could tell and just stopped. EVO's we've turned hundreds of those alone and no nitriding. No problems.
Back in '03 we took the rods out of my first EVO8, I mean like ruined them. We fixed the engine and put it back in. Within a hundred miles, same thing. Fixed it again, same thing 50 miles. Holy ****, we were wishing for DSM's to be produced again. We then went through multiple bearing manufacturers, cut down DSM bearings to fit, all with the same results. To say it was frustrating would be an understatement. At the Shootout we had them go out the day before the race. We dropped the pan, got a sand paper strip, polished the crank by hand in the car and put bearings back on it, there was an audience for that and it wasn't pretty. The car made it through the next day. Then we finally had the light switch go on, engine was being contaminated, pulled the oil cooler off and holy ****, as much as Dan had tried to clean it it was still full of metal. We sent it to the machine shop and had them clean it, flushed it with high pressure solvent for hours. Got it back, set it in the shop sink with the outlets pointing down while we went to work on getting the engine back in. Finally we were ready for the oil cooler and grabbed it out of the sink to install it.............there was a PILE of metal where it has been sitting. So much for washing. We deleted the oil cooler and guess what happened? Freaking engine lasted for who knows how long.
I'll also add I don't know how many customers/shops have had engine failures, call me, we end up with a not so pleasant phone call, "I am to blame" then it's found the oil cooler was never replaced or the other NUMBER ONE issues are 1. Head was done elsewhere and it ends up full of glass bead or sand and ends up in the oil. 2. The valve cover was powder coated/painted and it was sandblasted. The old oil on the bottom side of the valve covers is thick and like grease. It traps all that sand/glass bead under it then gets broken loose to go through the engine. That genius james reese ruined TWO of our strokers like that, blamed us when I kept telling him there was dirt in the engine. He finally took the baffling off the valve cover to find I was right. Dirt ball probably never told the customer and built the next engine himself for the guy......another story.