boost solutions has a package deal for upgrading fuel components... it gives you
hks cam and gears
walbro pump
your choice of like 3 or 4 injectors
$1300

bottom line if all you have on your car is intake and exhaust or something minimal dont bother with the fuel upgrades

but when you start adding its a minimal cost (around 100bucks) for an extra level of protection... anywhere from 400-550 bucks can save your car

en1gma19
I would agree by the way with the emanage... for those of us that dont want a full standalone but but serious upgrading capabilities... emanage can monitor injector duty cycles and will read bigger injectors...

-non

 

From everything I've read from Al and Shiv, the stock pump can't supply the regulator with a consistent amount of fuel at higher RPMs during sustained loads (Like after 4 or 5 successive dyno runs).

I don't have any information to substantiate this as I don't datalog my fuel pressure. I'm just passing on the information I've read on this board.

I also recall David Buschur saying that they picked up quite a bit of torque by tuning their SAFC-II with the bigger pump. I'm assuming because they were able to pull enough fuel to induce extra timing.

 

Wow, $1300 is barely more than the cost of cams & gears alone!! I gotta get back to George. I already have the 660 cc RC injectors and the Perrin fuel rail. I guess I'll need the pump and AEM to tune to the cams, full exhaust & FMIC....... Hell, I might be able to actually buy all this stuff

 

Wadzii, those A/F ratios sound fairly aggressive to me.... I was under the impression that 11.5:1 was a better (safer) bet.....

Bonus, I'm confused here. How can a bigger, more powerful pump be required to "pull" (lean-out, provide less fuel) fuel to the engine? Also, would the "pulled fuel" not "pull timing" (retard timing) as well?

 

the car gained a bit of hp going from 11.5:1 to 12.0:1, but didnt gain going from 12:1 to 12.5:1. so i left it at 12:1

the egts were in check during all this, for conditions that match what i saw on the dyno 12.5:1 would be perfectly safe. keep in mind that on the dyno the intake temps were easily 25deg hotter than what i see on the street, so running 12.5:1 with cooler intake temps would be perfectly safe. in general i think the mitsu crowd is a little old school. the stock turbo is a horrid example of inefficency. i come from the honda crowd where technology pushes the edge. we have made the power that you evo guys are getting with 8-10 psi. running fairly safe. 20psi on a honda will get you in excess of 450-500hp if done right, and thats on a stock block.

we usually run around 12.5:1 afrs depending on how cool we can keep the intake.

 

When you've got a few more bolt-ons, the stock pump supposedly can't supply the fuel pressure that the regulator is set to at the higher RPMs. Your A/F will be a bit leaner without that additional fuel pressure up top which is where you'll be doing the majority of the changes to your fuel.

When you pull fuel (As in lower the amount of fuel at a given RPM range with an MAF intercept device such as an SAFC, XEDE, E-Manage, Etc.), the ECU tends to think it's under a low-load condition and will throw additional timing at the fuel.

 

That makes sense to me, but I don't understand why you'd need to up-grade the pump in order to supply less fuel

My bad, I was thinking about my car. In the case of my car with the crappy fuel I had in it, the stock settings were too lean which caused timing advance but.. the increased advance & leaner mix was causing knock which in turn caused the ecu to retard the timing very severely..... In my case, less fuel caused less timing in the end, causing less power
I guess I have a "noisy" engine . If this is the case and what the ecu hears is not really knocking, perhaps I could benefit from tweaking the knock sensor input........

 

You'll be seeing more fuel pressure at WOT so you'll be pulling a bit more fuel than you would with the stock pump. You'll also be seeing STEADY pressure which can fight off deadly lean conditions if you're driving consistently hard.

 

Oh, I think I understand..... I guess you are saying "pulling fuel" as in "increasing fuel flow"... Is this correct? I'm sorry but English is not my native language and I think of a fuel pump as "pushing" fuel through the injectors into the cylinders. I can understand a more powerful pump would be needed to supply more fuel.....
I guess to me "pulling" means taking away as in "pulling timing". Does this make any sense?
thanks

 

This may sound a little offensive, but please try to take it literally:

To those who say "don't bother with the pump", have you ever tried it?

I myself was skeptical of the fuel pump, but after the upgrade I was incredibly impressed with the gains (this was on a Subaru).

My friends showed some skepticism (which I don't blame), UNTIL they upgraded the fuel pumps themselves and agreed that there IS a difference, regardless of the whp you're putting down.

Heck I know a stock STi owner was happy with the fuel pump upgrade.

My gains were:
- power gain ACROSS the RPM range not just the top
- "smoother" power delivery
- believe it or not better fuel mileage
- less knock at high RPM; able to hold higher boost

DISCLAIMER:
JDM STi, on upgraded STi fuel pump

 

a higher flowing fuel pump will tend to raise the fuel pressure. that will make the car run richer. if you have stuff done to a car then running richer will tend to allow the ecu to bring back some of the timing that it pulled b/c of the noise the knock sensor was seeing due to the lean condition.

with a properly tuned car a fuel pump wont make a difference. i guarentee that adding a bigger pump to the evo we tuned with the aem ems will do absolutly nuthing for the power.

 

That is a correct statement about the bigger fuel pump making no power. Just when has a bigger fuel pump made power? It allows for more power adding items to be put on the car. I am sorry the little pump that is in the car now just is not capable of supplying enough fuel for anything much over 325 whp.

As for your statement of:

"the egts were in check during all this, for conditions that match what i saw on the dyno 12.5:1 would be perfectly safe. keep in mind that on the dyno the intake temps were easily 25deg hotter than what i see on the street, so running 12.5:1 with cooler intake temps would be perfectly safe.
Are you really sure? With a cooler charge it will be a dencer charge meaning more air in the combustion chamber which will want more gas or the air fuel ratio will go leaner.

"in general i think the mitsu crowd is a little old school. the stock turbo is a horrid example of inefficency. i come from the honda crowd where technology pushes the edge. we have made the power that you evo guys are getting with 8-10 psi. running fairly safe. 20psi on a honda will get you in excess of 450-500hp if done right, and thats on a stock block."

As for old school, our cars came with the factory turbo on the car. Also the car cost $30,000 not $2,000-$8,000 for a 90's civic or 15,000-$20,000 for a new one. We are trying to get the most out of our small turbos. Our TDO5 turbo has a compressor efficantey range from about 12 psi to 20 psi that is where our cars run at. As for the Hondas on a stock open decked block (this will explode at the first hint of detontion) has a higher commpression than our 8.8:1 compression. The turbos you are putting on the honda's are TO4X's well I just wonder what the trim is? Just how many pounds pre minitue is the compressor wheel? So saying that hondas are making 450 -500 hp at 20 psi is really not a fair statement now is it? I made 425 whp @19 psi on my eclipse but I had a T3/T4 GT3040 with very little timing in the car. Speaking of timing, on the hondas were you using a standalone ECU. Well there you have it. We are working with a STOCK ECU that pulls timing down to 5 degrees as soon as the boost hits.
All in All you are kinda on target but you can not compare a Mits motor to a Honda motor. Tuning on both are kinda thesame but not quite.Last i am sorry you went to school for the AEM that thing is a heep!
Haaahhaha I guess ido fall into your oldschool type people because I love my Haltech!!! E6k!
Last I am not trying to bust your ***** either.

 

yes we run standalones and big turbos.

the evo work i have done has been with the aem ems. the internal dementions of the 4g63 are similar to the 2liter motors we run.

higher compression does not mean more power. i like to make more power with lower compression, anything lost in compression can be more than made up for with ign timing. at 8.8:1 there is no reason this motor should require so little timing. even on the evo we have done w/the aem ems there is no timing. i dont quite understand it.

haha, the aem ems is a heap? sence when is something that is more capable than anything on the market for 1/3 the price a heap?

most of hte people i see posting about the fuel pump are not pushing crazy hp. how many people that posted in this thread are over 300? the stock pump should be able to at least max the injectors out. they will max at around 350-375hp.

the td05 might be in its efficency, but the td05 isnt efficent to begin with, no matter the boost.

yall dont have a link to some specs on this motor, combustion chamber size, valve size, cam specs, maybe even a pic of the combustion chamber...... i wana know why 4g63 hates timing so much.

 

Like I said I am a Haltech person. It is simple!!!!!
The tdo5 turbo chops up the air like putting a cow in a grinder and getting out hambuger meat. (IE hot air, that is why they put a FMIC on the car)
I will see what I can do on the Pic of the motor.

 

Sorry for Hi jacking the thread!