Judging strictly from the above, it almost sounds to me that you have the 18 PSI, and not the 25 PSI FP actuator.Incidentally, what DV/BOV are you running?

When you say that the turnbuckle is threaded all the way down....Is that with the backup nut removed or is the nut still on there behind the turnbuckle?

 

nice video

 

yes that's correct

i asked for the 25psi unit and thats what i'm invoiced for, so i have no reason to believe that i've been shipped a 18psi unit. i have heard of FP underrating their WGAs though. maybe i'm wrong? but i'm happy with the way it performs either way, at 2200ft above sealevel i'm able to hit 300wtq in 3rd on VD at ~3900rpm (75F degrees) with the stock 2.0 and TScomp's tune

i'm running a recirc'ed Synapse BOV and the back up nut has been removed

 

I am not wanting to argue with fightex. Just trying to clearly understand for the purposes of this thread exactly how he has the WGA adjusted on his DBB Red and how it differs from honda-guys turbo/WGA assembly. That is, why does one turbo boost flat out the top and the other creep to a certain extent.

They are both BB Reds. Essentially the same turbo. One is equipped with the FP 18 PSI actuator, the other turbo is fitted with the FP 25 PSI unit. Fightex's BB Red features FP's optional porting, while the other has DIY porting. Honda guy's turbine bypass port has been extensively ported while the bypass port on Fightex's turbo is probably unported and remains cast, as stock.

Fightex is running a Synapse BOV whereas Honda-Guy has the factory IX metal DV(crushed ?). If I recall, honda-guy is controlling boost via Hallman MBC while fightex employs a 3-port BCS and modified factory ECU boost control.

Honda-Guy has his 18 PSI actuator very lightly tensioned whereas, fightex has a higher level of spring tension holding the flapper valve onto its seat via the FP 25 pound WGA. Am I missing something else here? I merely thought that honda-Guy would gain some insight from a comparative side-by-side analysis.

Fightex has stated that his BB Red is presently preloaded to 22 PSI and that his turbo is exhibiting no creep. Honda guy sees some, minor creep depending on how he adjusts his Hallman and how much spring tension he puts on the flapper. Am I missing any further, significant differences that could have an impact on two somewhat different yet basically very similar setups?

Fightex's Red is mounted on a tubular exhaust header whereas honda-guys, I think is on a stock, cast, exhaust manifold. Each turbo is mated to a different type of O2 housing. Both motors, I am assuming are stock longblocks. Do both turbos sport the 84mm Flow Advancement, surge ported compressor housings? Or are they both on the smaller, 64mm MHI factory comp housings? Do they both pull through a Mass Air Flow Sensor, or are they SD, and etc.? One setup(fightex's) is TSComp tuned, whereas honda-guy, I am not clear on if he is self tuned, or what.

 

I have Tial VTA BOV, not stock.

with the 18 psi wga, the lowest boost i could run on the top end was 25 psi (we're only concern with the top end because that's where the boost creep is), before porting the wastegate.

fightex said the lowest boost he can run is 22 psi on the top end. that's still 3 psi lower than mine and his wastegate is not ported. he's running a dump o2 housing and on EBC.

 

i just added some preload to the 18 psi wga, turned the turnbuckle one fool rotation from base setting.

boot ceep is till at 21 psi, if i set the boost any where lower than that. but i can keep it at a flat 21 psi with the MBC, so i'm happy with that. im still tapering all little on the top end when i set to 26 psi, so i'll add a little more preload to the wga later.

here's logs comparing 19 psi vs. 21 psi.

 

HG: Have you tried zeroing out the Hallman knob and increasing preload by rotating the turnbuckle up to the 20 PSI level? I am curious how it will act. That is, will it still creep with no MBC intervention strictly on 20 PSI of spring pressure?

 

That's an interesting point as I know the hallman has a bleeder built in.

 

There exists another point which bears keeping in mind when dealing with boost creep issues related to the FP 18 PSI HD actuator in particular and in contrast to other actuators for the 16G platform turbos.

The FP 18 pounder, posesses a characteristic boost spike that only manifests itself in the boost pressure range between 18-21 PSI. This boost spike makes it a not very good choice for situations where the user wants to preload between 18-21 PSI, or run a peak boost level within that limited boost range.

That is why NorCal Evo owners hate the FP 18 pounder. Since they are limited to 91octane and in the old days before sophisticated ECU controlled boost allowed tuners to fine tune boost curves etc. Back in 2005 NorCal Evo owners mostly ran 19-22 PSI peak boost levels on their OS Greens. Since the 18 pounder exhibited that characteristic spike right in the middle of their boost sweet spot.....they refused to run that actuator.

The spike is documented and Robert acknowledged it on this forum. So, honda-guy, don't be surprised to never get boost to settle down in that 20 PSI range with that actuator. You might have seen it as creep whereas it is a spike inherent to your 18 PSI WGA.

 

Doesn't boost SPIKE is considered to occurred at peak torque when the turbo is spooling? That's not the issue that I'm having.

My boost was not spiking, with the 18 psi wga or the oem wga. Both were able to hold a steady boost below 20 psi but gradually raise on the top end. That's a sign of boost creep to me. Look at the graph on the first page.

 

I am just saying that the 18# WGA has a boost anomally. Within a defined boost range 18#-21# it exhibits a 3 PSI "spike" that is difficult to tune around and it will override and impose itself over any user selected peak boost level or preloaded spring level.

I use the word spike for lack of a better term. But, you can call it whatever you like. I just think that this "spike" phenomenon will make it difficult for you to run 20# as a peak target. You'll probably have to set preload down at 16-17ish and let it creep or spike up to 20#. But she is going to spool like a dog.

Let's say you preload to 16-17#. And let's say she creeps to your 20# peak. That is fine and dandy in and of itself. But, it relegates you to those same 16# of spring pressure when you raise the peak up to 25-26#. So, it is gonna spool real slow from the 16# preload up to the 26# peak.

 

honda-guy, are you still using the stock boost lines with the restrictors?

 

all new vac lines from turbo to MBC and back to WGA.

 

H.G. have you tried shortening the overall length of the actuator rod on your FP 18 PSI actuator, yet? I have run my 18 PSI actuator for years and personally I prefer the way that it reacts with three to five threads cut off the tip of the actuator rod. 3/8" off the tip equates to about 3 to 4 threads.

 

^ don't need to cut the actuator rod because its not bottomed out. I only have it preload about 1/8". It will hold 26 psi if I set the mbc there. If l lower the boost, it will only creep to 21 psi. I'm happy with that for now. Havent driven the much since I'm putting on new coilovers and doing other maintenance stuff while its on jack stands.

In have cut actuator rod on my other turbo before.