View Poll Results: If you are running a 10w30 oil which of these oils would you use?
I would chose brand x
29
55.77%
I would chose brand y
5
9.62%
I would chose neither
15
28.85%
I would chose both
3
5.77%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll
Evo engine oil experiment: Would you run this oil?
^^ Human error could be using the wrong oil for the application though.
I found a test of the Rotella T6 I was using on:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...otella-t6.html
I found a test of the Rotella T6 I was using on:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...otella-t6.html
^ As in picking the wrong weight of random gas station oil?, I completely agree. But as for picking the best oil or the tenth best oil, you will never know the difference without performing some lab work.
I get the whole American dream of having the best of the best but this threads more for amusement sake and the conversation is way into the over kill section of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I love the thread and knowledge is power but take it for what is is folks and quit thinking its gonna be a life and death decision if you don't go out and change your oil pending the results.
But keep up the good work, its been a fun read so far and I love learning new things .
I get the whole American dream of having the best of the best but this threads more for amusement sake and the conversation is way into the over kill section of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I love the thread and knowledge is power but take it for what is is folks and quit thinking its gonna be a life and death decision if you don't go out and change your oil pending the results.
But keep up the good work, its been a fun read so far and I love learning new things .
Last edited by Live4Redline; May 6, 2013 at 11:13 AM.
The question about base stocks (synthetic vs conventional) is very appropriate for a turbo charger application. One of the primary advantages of a synthetic base oil is improved thermal stability (synthetic base oils can handle more heat than a conventional oil before they begin to breakdown). What defines a synthetic is nearly a whole topic on its own, however 3 types of synthetic base oils are primarily used in motor oils - Group III, Group IV and Group V.
Group III base oils are highly refined (hydro processed) mineral oils. Group IV base oils are synthetic hydrocarbons (PAO - built up instead of refined). Group V base oils are typically Esters.
Each of these have positive and negative attributes. Again, there is no one size fits all best motor oil or base oil. We must look at the application and then determine the chemistry. A street driven turbo that uses ethanol blended fuel (E10 up to E85) will need an oil that is stable with both high temps from the turbo and chemical stability from the Ethanol.
Group III is the lowest performing of the 3 in regards to thermal stability, so throw it out. Now you are down to PAO vs Ester. This is a much debated topic. However, the biggest weakness of an Ester is stability with water and reactivity with alcohol, so PAO wins in this application (I still want ester in the jet turbine engine).
Group III base oils are highly refined (hydro processed) mineral oils. Group IV base oils are synthetic hydrocarbons (PAO - built up instead of refined). Group V base oils are typically Esters.
Each of these have positive and negative attributes. Again, there is no one size fits all best motor oil or base oil. We must look at the application and then determine the chemistry. A street driven turbo that uses ethanol blended fuel (E10 up to E85) will need an oil that is stable with both high temps from the turbo and chemical stability from the Ethanol.
Group III is the lowest performing of the 3 in regards to thermal stability, so throw it out. Now you are down to PAO vs Ester. This is a much debated topic. However, the biggest weakness of an Ester is stability with water and reactivity with alcohol, so PAO wins in this application (I still want ester in the jet turbine engine).
Driven is definitely correct about the group III vs PAO & Ester. But gsrboi80 highlights a very valid point, most "over the counter" oils are hydro cracked or group III. Most, if not all, PAO or Ester based oils are in the specialty oil category (i.e. Motul & Redline). Of course with the high price tag. I think most of these debates start because people want racing oil, conveniently and cheap.
^ As in picking the wrong weight of random gas station oil?, I completely agree. But as for picking the best oil or the tenth best oil, you will never know the difference without performing some lab work.
I get the whole American dream of having the best of the best but this threads more for amusement sake and the conversation is way into the over kill section of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I love the thread and knowledge is power but take it for what is is folks and quit thinking its gonna be a life and death decision if you don't go out and change your oil pending the results.
But keep up the good work, its been a fun read so far and I love learning new things .
I get the whole American dream of having the best of the best but this threads more for amusement sake and the conversation is way into the over kill section of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I love the thread and knowledge is power but take it for what is is folks and quit thinking its gonna be a life and death decision if you don't go out and change your oil pending the results.
But keep up the good work, its been a fun read so far and I love learning new things .
But this thread wasn't started for the sake of chosing the best. As DrivenRacingOils even said, best is dependant on ones specific needs. Whats best for my setup may not be best for yours. The whole intention was to gain more knowledge about the ingredients, so to speak, and the levels of the chemicals shown in an analysis and how to dissect them.
At first I guess I was trying to look at an oil anaylsis similar to the way I read the ingredients in my supplements and try to figure out if its worth a damn. I know that everyone was looking at zinc, but I was curious about the rest of the chemicals and their levels and what that all meant.. Really the short end of this is that thanks to Driven's post that really answered the main question and reason I started this thread.
I learned quite a bit and I like to share the knowledge so we can all benefit from it.
so DrivenRacingOil, what oil would you recommend for a car that is running a 2.4L with mild cams stock turbo and E85 with oil changes happening between 3k-4k miles? i only ask because you mentioned that Ethanol is corrosive. does that mean it breaks down oils faster than your regular 91 pump.
See that's cool TommiM and that's what makes it a good read but then you get posts like the one above, sorry to pick on you but who missed the point entirely. The full break down of whats in your oil is good info to check if the manufacturer is holding up to its standards but a couple parts per million differance is going to have no evedent effect on the life of your motor. It's like nit picking the crystalline structure of the aluminum in your turbo housing. Any of the high quality oils are going to serve the same purposes with minor differences of some additional zinc content and specialty break in oils. You can argue that some additional detergents will in theory help more in certain builds then others and I'm sure its true, but to what extent. Increasing the life of your motor 1.2 seconds over a 100k miles life cycle. It's good conversation and something to talk about but if your gonna base your next oil change on it then your missing the point. Unless of course you find something negative in the results of course.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
See that's cool TommiM and that's what makes it a good read but then you get posts like the one above, sorry to pick on you but who missed the point entirely. The full break down of whats in your oil is good info to check if the manufacturer is holding up to its standards but a couple parts per million difference is going to have no evident effect on the life of your motor. It's like nit picking the crystalline structure of the aluminum in your turbo housing. Any of the high quality oils are going to serve the same purposes with minor differences of some additional zinc content and specialty break in oils. You can argue that some additional detergents will in theory help more in certain builds then others and I'm sure its true, but to what extent. Increasing the life of your motor 1.2 seconds over a 100k miles life cycle. It's good conversation and something to talk about but if your gonna base your next oil change on it then your missing the point. Unless of course you find something negative in the results of course.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
Last edited by MrSquirr3l; May 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM.
so DrivenRacingOil, what oil would you recommend for a car that is running a 2.4L with mild cams stock turbo and E85 with oil changes happening between 3k-4k miles? i only ask because you mentioned that Ethanol is corrosive. does that mean it breaks down oils faster than your regular 91 pump.
See that's cool TommiM and that's what makes it a good read but then you get posts like the one above, sorry to pick on you but who missed the point entirely. The full break down of whats in your oil is good info to check if the manufacturer is holding up to its standards but a couple parts per million differance is going to have no evedent effect on the life of your motor. It's like nit picking the crystalline structure of the aluminum in your turbo housing. Any of the high quality oils are going to serve the same purposes with minor differences of some additional zinc content and specialty break in oils. You can argue that some additional detergents will in theory help more in certain builds then others and I'm sure its true, but to what extent. Increasing the life of your motor 1.2 seconds over a 100k miles life cycle. It's good conversation and something to talk about but if your gonna base your next oil change on it then your missing the point. Unless of course you find something negative in the results of course.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
There are so many more important things to worry about in preserving the life of your motor then parts per million microscopic results of an already known to be high quality oil. Theres so many other risks you could work on mitigating that would reward you with greater results.
Oil is the lifeblood of your motor, why ignore it? If you have any information saying otherwise, im all ears....
If e85 is in the equation, you must check to see if the chosen or preferred oil is compatible. We all know that Brad Penn is not compatible with e85, as it turns to jello.. You have quite the power hungry build, I would suggest some Amsoil "Z-rod" for this application.. Or one of the Redline lubricants/ motor oils.. I dont suggest "Z-rod" for everything, I just feel it suits your needs well. Especially if your pushing 30+ psi out of the stock turbo, which Im sure you are.
funny you say that all i thought was the Brad Penn oil turning jello like, its like the car has high cholesterol.
sadly we have to wait till tomorrow to find out.
Last edited by MrSquirr3l; May 7, 2013 at 04:02 PM.
You have absolutely missed the point/ objective of this thread, obviously you dont care about the differences and benefits of certain oils. Its not just about "ppm" differences, there is a lot more to it... You again missed that. You do not know what youre talking about and you're positive contribution is null.. Go ahead and pour that mobil 5w-30 into your car and fry your journal bearings (expecting rebuttal from gsrboi..). Its more than "conversation", i think us oil ******* reap the benefit of knowledge/wisdom vs going off your principle of "just pour it and forget". <-- This is just being ignorant.
Oil is the lifeblood of your motor, why ignore it? If you have any information saying otherwise, im all ears....
Oil is the lifeblood of your motor, why ignore it? If you have any information saying otherwise, im all ears....
+1.
I personally like to know and understand what and why Im putting in my engine. I like to know and understand the data, not just marketing hype or because someone with a fast car is using it.
I will also like to add that there are a lot of folks on here that do their own wrenching, some even that build there own engines. That's what I am currently doing. Ive been slowly assembling the pieces, torqueing EVERY bolt to spec. Its very labor intensive, especially when your doing it in a small one car garage. Basically what I am trying to say is that for some of us that are putting together our own motors with our own tears, blood, and sweat we might be a little more particular what lubricant goes through it.
Well that's my personal rant on why Im so picky on oils. ymmv
+1.
I personally like to know and understand what and why im putting in my engine. I like to know and understand the data, not just marketing hype or because someone with a fast car is using it.
I will also like to add that there are a lot of folks on here that do their own wrenching, some even that build there own engines. That's what i am currently doing. Ive been slowly assembling the pieces, torqueing every bolt to spec. Its very labor intensive, especially when your doing it in a small one car garage. Basically what i am trying to say is that for some of us that are putting together our own motors with our own tears, blood, and sweat we might be a little more particular what lubricant goes through it.
Well that's my personal rant on why im so picky on oils. Ymmv
I personally like to know and understand what and why im putting in my engine. I like to know and understand the data, not just marketing hype or because someone with a fast car is using it.
I will also like to add that there are a lot of folks on here that do their own wrenching, some even that build there own engines. That's what i am currently doing. Ive been slowly assembling the pieces, torqueing every bolt to spec. Its very labor intensive, especially when your doing it in a small one car garage. Basically what i am trying to say is that for some of us that are putting together our own motors with our own tears, blood, and sweat we might be a little more particular what lubricant goes through it.
Well that's my personal rant on why im so picky on oils. Ymmv
Last edited by BEKevo; May 7, 2013 at 09:10 PM.