Reverse Cooling the 4G63
Mar 9, 2015, 10:59 AM
#1
Reverse Cooling the 4G63
Anybody tried reverse cooling the 4G63? For clarity, I mean pumping the coolant into the head first and then the exit would be out the block with the hope being reduced cylinder head temps.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
Mar 9, 2015, 03:34 PM
#3
Anybody tried reverse cooling the 4G63? For clarity, I mean pumping the coolant into the head first and then the exit would be out the block with the hope being reduced cylinder head temps.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
Mar 9, 2015, 04:59 PM
#6
Anybody tried reverse cooling the 4G63? For clarity, I mean pumping the coolant into the head first and then the exit would be out the block with the hope being reduced cylinder head temps.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
I'm going with an electric water pump setup and no thermostat. I have an air bleed on the radiator and am thinking the TB 3/8" hose barb out the head for an engine bled. These would run to the top of a high mounted reservoir with a bottom drain going to the suction side of the pump to provide a constant air bleed system.
Thoughts, opinions and experience welcome.
I believe he is talking about Evan's Waterless coolant. It works very well.
Mar 9, 2015, 09:00 PM
#7
I had talked myself out of it after reading Stewart Warners website. They make the claim that the coolant only picks up 1-2 degrees in the block so the difference is really minimal. Because you are flowing against gravity, reverse flow can have problems with air/steam pockets though and they recommend against it.
Then I come on here and Aaron says it works on the 4G.... Guess I'll give it a shot. Haha. It's only really a matter of changing 2 tubes in my setup.
Aaron, I had a thread long ago about using the OEM ecu to control a water pump. The most significant thing out of it for me was the realization that the OEM fan module most likely operates more like a PWM to DC voltage level converter that can handle about 50 amp as it has a substantial amount of inductive and capacitive filtering in it.
Then I come on here and Aaron says it works on the 4G.... Guess I'll give it a shot. Haha. It's only really a matter of changing 2 tubes in my setup.
Aaron, I had a thread long ago about using the OEM ecu to control a water pump. The most significant thing out of it for me was the realization that the OEM fan module most likely operates more like a PWM to DC voltage level converter that can handle about 50 amp as it has a substantial amount of inductive and capacitive filtering in it.
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Mar 10, 2015, 10:25 AM
#8
Evans waterless. No pressure build up, so radiator end tanks don't fail, if you have a leak it's generally controllable, hoses typically last longer, and a few other benefits. It's pricey, but worth it.
http://www.evanscooling.com/
http://www.evanscooling.com/
Last edited by kaj; Mar 10, 2015 at 10:32 AM.
Mar 10, 2015, 11:18 AM
#10
my car had Evans coolant in the car when i first got it. but i switched it out for 80/20 water/coolant with water wetter.
this is what i read from another forum about waterless coolant.
this is what i read from another forum about waterless coolant.
Here's a mean tech article I ran accorss that made up my mind and worked to prove alot of things I had read:
http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html
Evans coolant is 100% propylene glycol...no water added. Cool thing is it doesn't boil until 360F. Thats great when you think about localized boiling around the cylinders causing hotspots with conventional...with Evans there's no way you're going to get hotspots in the combustion chamber that can possibly cause knock. Bad thing is propylene glycol's specific heat isn't all that great. That effectively makes your radiator act like its smaller than it really is. That also means that when your engine makes a fixed amount of heat the Evans coolant temps will rise more than water will. That's all fine and dandy when you remember that it won't boil until 360F...it has plenty of overhead. The bad thing is the fans run more often than they should since the stock computer thinks you're getting hotter than you should be. The other bad thing is your oil temps go up from the extra heat in the block so you need a nice big oil cooler to manage things. Granted Mobil 1 says its good for 400F but I know most road racers shut things down at 300F. Other negatives to the Evans coolant are the cost and the large expansion rate range of the fluid with temperature swings.
Plain water with Water Wetter (or a similar surfactant like purple ice or stay cool) keeps temps the lowest. Problem with it is a boiling and freezing protection. Water wetter doesn't do anything significant to the boiling or freezing point of plain water. The best protection for boil over is adding conventional antifreeze but that will increase your actual coolant temps. If you want to increase the boiling point while avoiding antifreeze you need to crank the system pressure as high as possible. The highest pressure cap I could find is the TRD at 1.5 kg/cm2 (21.75 psi) which will raise the boiling point to 262-263F. Of course with the high pressure comes the chance of busting hoses. Water Wetter does contain corrosion inhibitors but they don't hold up for too long. Redline reccomends replenishing or replacing the Water Wetter every 15,000 miles.
http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html
Evans coolant is 100% propylene glycol...no water added. Cool thing is it doesn't boil until 360F. Thats great when you think about localized boiling around the cylinders causing hotspots with conventional...with Evans there's no way you're going to get hotspots in the combustion chamber that can possibly cause knock. Bad thing is propylene glycol's specific heat isn't all that great. That effectively makes your radiator act like its smaller than it really is. That also means that when your engine makes a fixed amount of heat the Evans coolant temps will rise more than water will. That's all fine and dandy when you remember that it won't boil until 360F...it has plenty of overhead. The bad thing is the fans run more often than they should since the stock computer thinks you're getting hotter than you should be. The other bad thing is your oil temps go up from the extra heat in the block so you need a nice big oil cooler to manage things. Granted Mobil 1 says its good for 400F but I know most road racers shut things down at 300F. Other negatives to the Evans coolant are the cost and the large expansion rate range of the fluid with temperature swings.
Plain water with Water Wetter (or a similar surfactant like purple ice or stay cool) keeps temps the lowest. Problem with it is a boiling and freezing protection. Water wetter doesn't do anything significant to the boiling or freezing point of plain water. The best protection for boil over is adding conventional antifreeze but that will increase your actual coolant temps. If you want to increase the boiling point while avoiding antifreeze you need to crank the system pressure as high as possible. The highest pressure cap I could find is the TRD at 1.5 kg/cm2 (21.75 psi) which will raise the boiling point to 262-263F. Of course with the high pressure comes the chance of busting hoses. Water Wetter does contain corrosion inhibitors but they don't hold up for too long. Redline reccomends replenishing or replacing the Water Wetter every 15,000 miles.
Mar 10, 2015, 06:15 PM
#11
I tried the evans coolant. expensive waste for me. I was looking for an edge but found nothing but headaches. biggest for me was how much hotter the coolant temp was . hot enough that the a/c no longer worked. and you can only try it after fresh engine build. its impossible to get water out of system unless everything is apart.
Mar 10, 2015, 06:50 PM
#12
i use Evans for a few reasons:
1. i want to protect my radiator end tanks. i prefer the OEM radiator. of course, they still get hot, but there is no pressure to pop them (or at least that's how it seems so far).
2. the loss of pressure seems to do a good job of keeping other parts from failing.
3. preference, i suppose?
4. our other track vehicles have had no issues. like none. this includes autox, HPDE, and time attack events on more than one make/model.
if i find a draw back to using it, i'll stop. until then, i prefer the benefits over the (lack of) draw backs. this just with our, personal experience. i can't speak for others.
for me, putting it in was easy. we did a complete engine rebuild, so every drop of water was gone. i could see it being a pretty decent P.I.T.A. if you are doing it on a fully-assembled vehicle. not impossible, but hard.
again, it's just my preference and experience. i'm not implying it's better than anything else. that being said, i wonder if a reverse-flow setup would benefit me any.
1. i want to protect my radiator end tanks. i prefer the OEM radiator. of course, they still get hot, but there is no pressure to pop them (or at least that's how it seems so far).
2. the loss of pressure seems to do a good job of keeping other parts from failing.
3. preference, i suppose?
4. our other track vehicles have had no issues. like none. this includes autox, HPDE, and time attack events on more than one make/model.
if i find a draw back to using it, i'll stop. until then, i prefer the benefits over the (lack of) draw backs. this just with our, personal experience. i can't speak for others.
for me, putting it in was easy. we did a complete engine rebuild, so every drop of water was gone. i could see it being a pretty decent P.I.T.A. if you are doing it on a fully-assembled vehicle. not impossible, but hard.
again, it's just my preference and experience. i'm not implying it's better than anything else. that being said, i wonder if a reverse-flow setup would benefit me any.
Mar 10, 2015, 07:18 PM
#14
a/c not working wasnt the only issue i had. I bought it for the " antiknock" supposed ability. on paper it sounds like it should work great. when water boils at surface of head it forms a vapor which blocks the ability of the coolant to do its job. using glyco raises the boiling point at the surface and with no water present there is no vapor barrier with hot spots. in my logs i can see the knock pattern of all four cylinders. I saw zero change for good on the glyco when i hoped to see a reduction in knock patterns. if anything it got worse due to the added heat. car definitely got slower . engine compartment temp rose drastically. so air entering air filter was much hotter. coolant tempts went from 190ish to 230ish after a hard pull. in my case I just saw no advantage to using it.
