Your estimated failure rate for your failed engines built is complete BS at best. The failure rate for built engines in first three months is likely 30-40% in the tampa area. and that is NOT BS. At least you admit you didnt have a clue how the thermo worked before you started selling plugs. its impossible to say how many engines suffered low oil pressure from these plugs and subsequent engine failure because of it. that works wonderfully in your favor. but even just one failure would be too many the way I see it. all because someone selling plugs to make 10 bucks had no clue what exactly the resulting oil pressure would be when thermo opens. bottom line here is I opened this thread because a local here had severe oil pressure problems that were actually measured. as a result of using plugs to eliminate an oil cooler. anyone who continues to use just plugs has to have a screw loose in the head.

 

I don't know who's building the engine in Tampa that have a failure rate that high but it's not us. If we had engines failing I'd surely know it. Telling me what I stated is bull**** is like calling me a liar, for that all I can tell you, I hope you show up here someday to tell me to my face.

It doesn't work in my favor either ******* because if 30-40% of our engines were failing I wouldn't still be shipping 2 a week for over 25 years as our reputation for building them would be in the toilet.

Wake up attention getter.

 

If you were installing all those engines you sell and actually serviced them all throughout their lifespan I wouldnt say anything about your 1-2% failure rate estimate. But the truth is you likely sell 90% of your engines without out ever hearing a single feedback report on them. thats just basic facts about how the hobby works. My 30-40% estimate is not pulled out of my **** just to get a rise out of you. Its based on being as involved as one can get in the 4g63 hobby for the last 20 years. the high failure rate is just a cold hard fact. and one of the main reasons I never opened up a shop in this area. to see people invest 5k+ into a nice built engine and see it fail in a the first few weeks with no monetary recourse is something I dont want to be involved in. But I have painfully watched for the last 20yrs without exception EVERY shop in this area do exactly that.

I see debating you is going to be just as stupid as selling two plugs instead of three. You were better off just staying out of this thread. grow up david. I have nothing to gain here but helping others stay away from a costly engine failure.

 

I cut the last response down from you to the important facts of what you said.

"EVERY shop in this area do exactly that." That is sad to hear but I am about 1,000 miles from there and if an engine fails for one of our customers we stand behind it if it has ANYTHING to do with any of our workmanship. My percentages of failures is not something I pulled out of my ***, it is what I'd say is a very accurate estimate, we see a failure in one of our engine RARELY.

You aren't saving anyone costly engine repairs, that was my point in responding in the first place. Like I've stated, we've built thousands of engines, deleted hundreds of oil coolers, have engines with 100,000+ miles on them with the delete plugs and they work fine.

 

It is a bit sad to see people who share the same passion and obsession for something, including myself, to argue on matters with things getting on the accused/blaming side and the only way I can justify that is that each one of us ,as long as he is sincere to the bone, feels the need to protect and defend his own version of reality.

Arguing and disagreeing in a discussion such the one here is not bad, it actually is very fruitful, if it is done for the sake of mere knowledge and to create positive results.


What I am saying here is, since Dave is saying that his engines without an oil cooler run strong without issues and his rate of failure is as stated then that's how it is. On the other hand 94AWDcoupe is stating how the oil filter housing works is correct. Personally I have no opinion on the matter as all the engines I have built/helped built/seen without an oil cooler also had the thermostat removed as there is no reason to be there without the cooler.



Anyone from the members of the forum that runs these kits for a justified amount of time and miles should post up, whether those are Dave's customers or not.








Marios

 

Take a close look at his response to me.......says his failure numbers were inflated to get under my skin......

My post is factual, not made up to protect or accuse anyone. Facts are we don't see engines fail and have been deleting the coolers and leaving the thermostats since 2003.

 

This thread really sums up pretty easy.

The likely hood of causing a problem by not removing the thermostat is VERY low...as proven by countless people that have eliminated the cooler and not removed the thermostat yet have not experienced related failures after hundreds of thousands of miles of combined use.

But...it's a REAL simple and cheap solution to eliminate the issue all together, so you are kind of crazy to not address it.

 

I have a built 2.3 stroked engine And I haven't replaced the oil cooler yet. if I'm looping with the thermostat am I ok for now? Is the issue only if you are plugged?

Thanks

 

Looping is fine!

 

If I had a 30-40% failure rate I would quit working on cars. That is terrible. That is a sign of someone not knowing what they are doing.

I do agree, as David did, that knowing there is a potential problem even if you haven't seen it personally and such a cheap and easy solution and not fixing it is asinine. A lot of folks didn't know the thermostat was there. I looked on my old DSM and the oil cooler was on a common oil galley and plugging the holes had no negative besides a lack of oil cooler.

 

you dont read very well.

 

That instruction should go to yourself as you actually did not read his resposne properly. Also If I thought that what your are saying is bull**** I would not post up what I did. I consider you one of the very good tuners on the dsm/evo scene who, If I was not able to do it myself, I would definitely trust to build my setup up.


As for oil coolers, I am a fan of them and I would not run my car without one.





Marios

 

hows that?
david said: "Take a close look at his response to me.......says his failure numbers were inflated to get under my skin......

I dint say I inflated numbers just to get under his skin. but thats how he interpreted it. I personally dont have a fail rate of 30-40%. My personal engines have all given great service and lasted for years. The fail rate in this area for built engines is in fact very high. and yes, it is sad. very sad. BUT TRUE. dont really care if anyone buys it or not. I think davids estimate of failed rate is simply based on how many engines out of a hundred he has had to warranty. but that doesnt mean more arent failing. he simply just doesnt get the feedback. few years back guy in palm harbor bought all buschar parts including a built motor. the build lasted 500 miles before the engine failed and the car was parted out. david did not get contacted like it was somehow his fault. 90% of failures are from poor tuning and assemblers who play mechanics. the last 10% are from a whole host of various reasons. hell the success rate for a 800+ horsepower car is maybe 10%. most simply die on the dyno during tuning or the first couple of test runs there after. again very sad, but very true.

I started this thread because I had a friend that had low oil pressure at the head. like 5psi. but 125psi at the pump. it took a couple of weeks to figure it out but the problem was indeed from an improper oil cooler elimination ( buschar plugs + tomie thermo eliminator) . If I had bought this combo and ruined an engine because of it I would be pretty pissed that there was no info about on Buschar site where I purchased the plugs.

I was just trying to help others not make similar or same mistake. and everything was fine till dave entered the thread.

 

The tomei thermostat eliminator and the plugs are in direct opposition of one another. That's a really bad combo. I assume he didn't comprehend what the Tomei units purpose truly was. I greatly appreciate the info. I have never eliminated the oil cooler on am EVO but probably would have done plugs because it was the in thing if I ever did it.

 

Thanks for the information!