fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

I need some ideas to help me troubleshoot my transmission install. I just had the 6speed trans rebuilt by Shep and everything went smoothly during the install, as it has the 5 times I have done this previously. Its a familiar process.

Issue:
When I ran the car for the first time I could not select any gear. So, the clutch is not letting go of the input shaft.

Troubleshooting so far:
I assumed I didn't seat the TOB clip to the pressure plate. I had a helper working the pedal as I watched from underneath and could see the pressure plate fingers moving and the clip in place as expected. I made sure to reseat it anyway with some force. Same visual and mechanical behavior through the inspection hole.

Then I checked to make sure the shifter cables were on the correct way around. you can only attach them the correct way actually.

Then I bled the slave cylinder, and can watch as it throws the clutch fork all the way until its a mm off of the case on the engine side.

Details:
The Trans rows through the gears as expected as along as its not running.
ACT HDSS setup. Has been fine for 7 years, disc resurfaced last year.
Just had the Flywheel resurfaced for this install.

What could it be?
Pressure plate clip. nope. Can see the PP fingers moving.
Clutch hydraulics. nope. Can see the arm forcing the fork all the way forward.
Shifter cables. nope. You can't swap them.

Could I have installed the clutch disc backwards? I checked that before install and it seemed to only go in one way, so I highly doubt it. The disc has a hub side, or spring side, and that can't fit into the assembly between the pressure plate and flywheel the wrong way. The disc won't touch the Flywheel because the hub will bottom out on the flywheel. And, the pressure plate bolts won't fit or reach the wrong way. Or am I making an illogical conclusion in this and I actually could have put the disc in backwards? What would the symptom be?

The Clutch Disc collar is bent from my removing of the trans, during which I struggled with the trans somewhat to get it released. Is this feasible or logically possible?


Are there any troubleshooting ideas folks can give me that don't involve taking the trans off again.

DSMolition

iTrader: (17)

What did you torque the pressure plate bolts to?
What is the step height of your flywheel? is it oem?


sounds like the tob is not clipped into the pressure plate or they took way to much off the flywheel. but you said you checked that its actually pulling the fingers on the pressure plate.

Evo8cy

The clutch wedge collar is a 2 piece item, ring and basis. Either piece could be damaged.





Try re-bleeding the clutch, and re-adjusting the clutch pedal. If this does not work, by the way you have described the issue and what you have done, you will need to pull the gearbox.










Marios

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

I torque'd the 6 flywheel bolts to just over 18 ft pounds. It feels essentially very little, but I have a digital torque wrench and it should be reasonably accurate.

I don't know the step height of the flywheel. Its a Gruppe Unit from many years ago, and has always been fine with this clutch setup. I did have it machined, so maybe a couple of thousands came off of it. However, logically I would think that should just make it slip earlier without adjusting. I think its an ACT sourced flywheel, just a half pound lighter when I weighed it than stock.

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

I re-bled the slave, but it had exactly the same behavior upon start up. Tears were shed, and language not suitable for my kids.....

if either of the two pieces of the collar are damaged wouldn't the resulting behavior be that it does not pull the fingers of the pressure plate? I can watch significant travel of the spring fingers occurring inside the trans when a helper presses the clutch pedal. If that is moving as it should then is it logical to consider the spring/wedge collar to be fine. If either ring or basis was damaged I would think the it wouldn't lock and therefore the PP fingers wouldn't move as they need to. ?

Evo8cy

Yes when either is damaged then the fingers do not do their work properly. But the point here, is how much do they move. You say they have a significant travel, but apparently it is not enough otherwise the clutch would disengage and engage properly allowing you to select gears. Have you tried re-adjusting the pedal. I cannot think of anything else if re-adjusting does not work as that will indicate that the wedge collar is damaged.




As for you children, although not a parent, but due to being a school teacher I do have much experience with kids, but language is not the best they could hear, but the actual experience of it, when later explained by you, will teach them enough. So do not be so upset about it. As for the clutch, we'll sort it out, others on here might have something else to add that I have not thought of.











Marios

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the comments. I have the clutch pedal adjustment all the way out. I had it that way to avoid any dragging on track of my setup, so I don't think there is any play left that would give me significantly more travel of the clutch fork.

I also see that fork nearly touching the edge of the trans case, indicating its traveling as far as it could.

I guess what that line of thinking points to that I have the disc in backwards. Could anyone comment on if that is even possible. I thought it wasn't.

There is also the theory that I bent the collar of the disc while removing the trans, so that now installed the disc is crooked and pressed up against part of the pressure plate and flywheel at a light angle.

barneyb

You've checked everything I could suggest. Looking into the tea leaves I see #7. Let us know what you find.

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

It was rough to take that whole thing apart again. Especially because I always do this job removing the subframe. It makes everything else easier, but takes many more steps.

Only one thing more painful was to see that I bolted the clutch disc in backwards. So I effectively pinned the disc hub side, or spring side, against the flywheel bolts. Doing it this way doesn't properly seat the disc itself against the flywheel, so any moron should notice that. Well, most morons.

What an embarrassing lesson. I guess my DIY ego needed a self check.

DSMolition

iTrader: (17)

Well that's good you got the issue figured out. I had no idea that it would even go back together with the disc backwards. I hope the disc is not bent.

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

Well, on the bench, where I tested and confirmed the orientation, it didn't look like it would. The bolts thread on with fingers, so I probably didn't think anything was wrong. But from the bench to the car I must have flipped the orientation while putting the plastic guide dowel in the collar. Then from under the car didn't notice the disc surface not completely mating flush with the flywheel.

So its possible without any struggle. Surprisingly.

I am sending the setup to ACT to have it checked out of repaired, re-skinned. Don't want to risk doing this again. Or even in 6 months.

Evo8cy

It is fairly easy to see which side goes into the pressure plate and which on the flywheel. Although I had read your comment on putting the disk the wrong way in, I did not want to comment on it as by the info you had given me on the matter I was sure that you needed to pull the gearbox again anyway to find it out by yourself.



If there are no deep scratching marks or any sort of scorching marks on flywheel and the disk looks ok, there is no need to send anything to ACT. As you have already re-surfaced the flywheel just before putting the assembly together, all you need to do is sand lightly the area on the flywheel where the disk mates up to it and you are good to go.











Marios

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I'm very surprised you were able to get the pressure plate bolted down with the disc in backwards. They usually don't fit together when that happens.

egis

With ACT it's possible .when you put pp over the disc even if it's backwards the dowels from the FW are not fully in and it's like 1/4" gap.ands that's what confuses you.