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Time to rebuild the block

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Old Jan 4, 2018, 02:56 PM   #1
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Time to rebuild the block

Hello fellow enthusiasts, like the title says it's time to rebuild the block. My main focus is road racing and autox. Do you guys think I should get a stroker kit or keep the block stock? My build so far is as follows:

Head rebuild with 272 kelford cams
bee hive valve train
arp studs
stock turbo
ets intercooler and piping
1000cc injectors
running e85

missing some other mods but the main focus is the block rebuilt. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 03:23 PM   #2
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If you are staying on the stock turbo and making under 400ftlbs of trq, I would stay on the stock block. The stock block is strong and reliable as is. The weak point I would say are the rod bolts and then the rods themselves. That's what failed for me at least.


A built 2.2L will do it all, whether it's autox, road racing, or even drag racing if you change your mind down the road. It simply makes torque and rev's out far.

Specific parts to consider are:

-GSC5041 for beehive springs
-ARP 2000 rod bolts
-ARP Main studs
-ARP L19 Head studs or Custom Age 625+ (Former would suffice)
-ACL bearings for rods and mains
- 94mm Eagle crank or Billet Manley crank

There are also a ton of options for pistons and rods.


I would definitely get a larger turbo if you're going through the trouble of getting your short block built. Something like an FP Green or FP Red would be perfect for you.

What are your ultimate power levels and rev limits? Have you done compression and leak down tests on your current block?
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Old Jan 6, 2018, 05:39 PM   #3
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I agree with pal. Stroke it out a little bit to a 2.2, you will be able to still rev to the moon if you need to and still have the low end that the stock 2 liter does not have. With auto x you will be in the midrange of the rpm band and the 2.2 will still allow you to keep nice revs and still make the power it will need to get you in and out of the corners.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 06:32 AM   #4
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Go 2.2 seems like a great option, I wish I had done my homework when I had my stroker built, would of went 2.2 instead of my 2.3. The torque is great on my 2.3 , but would love the 2.2 to rev higher. Good luck with what ever you choice.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 07:27 AM   #5
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hey guys, i currently have my block a part as well, and i honestly dont know if i should go for a stroker or not. is there really that much of a diffrence between the 2.2 and the 2.3 stroker? and will the stock turbo be able to keep up with it without falling off at the higher rpm's?
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 11:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkelBjerknes View Post
hey guys, i currently have my block a part as well, and i honestly dont know if i should go for a stroker or not. is there really that much of a diffrence between the 2.2 and the 2.3 stroker? and will the stock turbo be able to keep up with it without falling off at the higher rpm's?
Cams are a big part of where the turbo starts to fall off. On stock cams, block, and turbo I made peak hp at 6500rpm and it started to tapper off from there. With a 2.2 or higher I'd imagine that peak power would be made sooner on the stock turbo. The big difference is the rod ratio between the two setups. The 2.2 has a better rod ratio so there will be less side loading, allowing you to run a higher rpm safely(correct me if i'm wrong on this gents). A higher rod ratio also puts less stress on the crank journals. Rod ratio is the mathematical relationship between the overall length of the connecting rods and the stroke of the crankshaft. To get the rod ratio, divide the length of your piston rod by the crank stroke. The lower the rod ratio, the greater the side forces exerted by the pistons against the cylinder walls. This is why we see more side loading with 2.3's.

This happens because, as your piston gets pushed back up in the engine through the rotation of the crank, the rod doesn't push it straight up in the piston bore, it pushes it up and slightly to the side until the rod is in TDC position. Only then is it actually acting with 0 side loading. The opposite happens on the way back down when the rod pulls on the piston at an angle. I don't know if this loads the opposite side of the cylinder bore.

The next motor I build will be a 2.2.

Last edited by Pal215; Jan 8, 2018 at 05:11 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 04:28 PM   #7
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2.2 are awesome engine they can do it all

if buget isnt there though a 2.3 will do and I would stay away from forged manley/eagle crank they are crap....do a billet....our evo car club has seen 3 forged crank crack over the past 2 years.

1 88mm
2 100mm
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 04:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal215 View Post
Cams are a big part of where the turbo starts to fall off. On stock cams, block, and turbo I made peak hp at 6500rpms and it started to tapper off from there. With a 2.2 or higher I'd imagine that peak power would be made sooner. The big difference is the rod ratio between the two setups. The 2.2 has a better rod ratio so there will be less side loading, allowing you to run a higher rpm (correct me if i'm wrong on this gents). This also puts less stress on the crank journals. Rod ratio is the mathematical relationship between the overall length of the connecting rods and the stroke of the crankshaft. To get the rod ratio, divide the length of your piston rod by the crank stroke. The lower the rod ratio, the greater the side forces exerted by the pistons against the cylinder walls. This is why we see more side loading with 2.3's.

This happens because, as your piston gets pushed back up in the engine through the rotation of the crank, the rod doesn't push it straight up in the piston bore, it pushes it up and slightly to the side until the rod is in TDC position. Only then is it actually acting with 0 side loading. The opposite happens on the way back down when the rod pulls on the piston at an angle. I don't know if this loads the opposite side of the cylinder bore.

The next motor I build will be a 2.2.
The 2.1 was optimal for the 4g but you are correct the 2.2 has a slighly better rod ratio then then 2.0. And I agree my spare motor i took out of my evo will be a 2.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Evo View Post
2.2 are awesome engine they can do it all

if buget isnt there though a 2.3 will do and I would stay away from forged manley/eagle crank they are crap....do a billet....our evo car club has seen 3 forged crank crack over the past 2 years.

1 88mm
2 100mm
Good to know I am glad I used an oem crank when I did my 2.4
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 04:42 PM   #9
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The OEM 100mm breaks too. The eagle is a good option for a forged crank, I have had good luck with it. The Manley's crack.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 05:39 PM   #10
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The OEM 100mm breaks too. The eagle is a good option for a forged crank, I have had good luck with it. The Manley's crack.
The thing is sure they all break being once you stroke out a motor or in my case 2.4 you add extra vibration in the engine. People tell me all the time they rev their 2.4s to like 9k and I just laugh. I am fine with having a car that makes 500 ft lbs of tq and to keep it under 8500 rpms. I have a buddy that only revs his stock block dsm to only 6500 and he has full potential of reving higher, but the car likes it when he shifts at 6500. I mean 10.91 on a stock 14b on a bone stock lower end and upgraded valvetrain with crane 264s.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 08:43 AM   #11
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Yeah, 100mm motors should be kept <8k rpm for sure.
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Old Jan 11, 2018, 12:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Evo View Post
2.2 are awesome engine they can do it all

if buget isnt there though a 2.3 will do and I would stay away from forged manley/eagle crank they are crap....do a billet....our evo car club has seen 3 forged crank crack over the past 2 years.

1 88mm
2 100mm


Just rebuilt my motor cause after 5000 miles I cracked the rod journal on number 4 and it took out the bearing on a 100mm Manley turbo tuff crank. My engine builders Motovisty contact said that Manley told him that it is a common issue for cars making around the 650hp area to have this happen.
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Old Jan 11, 2018, 02:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by cficare68 View Post
Just rebuilt my motor cause after 5000 miles I cracked the rod journal on number 4 and it took out the bearing on a 100mm Manley turbo tuff crank. My engine builders Motovisty contact said that Manley told him that it is a common issue for cars making around the 650hp area to have this happen.
That totally sucks, but is a load of **** being there are plenty of cars on this forum that make that kinda power with after market cranks that have not broken.

It sucks it took out your rod journal but I don't think they take into accountability that larger stroke engines will have more vibrations and people over rev the **** out of them causing them to go boom. I don't know your displacement but if its 2.3 or 2.4 your going to have that issue.

I know when I had my 2.4 done even with the crank balanced and fluidamper on the car the vibrations in the crank area will not go away its just how things are with the 100mm cranks.
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Old Jan 11, 2018, 01:28 PM   #14
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i havent seen any broken 100mm oem cranks

but we usually keep those under 650 whp and dont rev them over 8k....once in a while on kill mode 8500
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Old Jan 11, 2018, 04:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Pal215 View Post
If you are staying on the stock turbo and making under 400ftlbs of trq, I would stay on the stock block. The stock block is strong and reliable as is. The weak point I would say are the rod bolts and then the rods themselves. That's what failed for me at least.


A built 2.2L will do it all, whether it's autox, road racing, or even drag racing if you change your mind down the road. It simply makes torque and rev's out far.

Specific parts to consider are:

-GSC5041 for beehive springs
-ARP 2000 rod bolts
-ARP Main studs
-ARP L19 Head studs or Custom Age 625+ (Former would suffice)
-ACL bearings for rods and mains
- 94mm Eagle crank or Billet Manley crank

There are also a ton of options for pistons and rods.


I would definitely get a larger turbo if you're going through the trouble of getting your short block built. Something like an FP Green or FP Red would be perfect for you.

What are your ultimate power levels and rev limits? Have you done compression and leak down tests on your current block?
Thanks for the reply. My mechanic will be taking apart the motor in February. Our first diagnostics was oh damn there are quite a bit shavings in the oil, so I immediately thought to myself "It's time to upgrade " The ideal hp is too stay around 500hp, or is that too much for autox and dd? As for the turbo, i could go for either the FP red or green, but leaning more towards the green (supposedly it has turbo lag??)
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