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I literally own an FP and out 25k miles on it. Your assessment is.... incorrect.
Alright alright fineeee! I guess i just want an excuse to buy more parts lmao. I’m gonna go with a MHI red and probably go BB over JB. I’m gonna be on E85 the whole time so I guess the red really does make sense.
Ball bearing certainly improves the transient response. To avoid any oil leakage from the CHRA be sure to use a turbo smart OPR in the oil feed line, and do the appropriate crankcase ventilation modifications. Keep in mind the crank case ventilation stuff would need done regardless due to the power level.
I don’t think there will be enough difference on the 9 turbo to the FP green, yeah it spools around the same time but they both start to run out of breath up top..
As mentioned above, the stock turbo and Green do not spool the same. I can't find my dyno charts, but I seem to remember about a 400-500ishRPM difference at 20psi. I can't remember how quickly each reached 300whp or 300wtq, though. Also, I don't remember the Green running out of breath... though I had to stop short of 500whp due to fueling issues. Maybe it does, once you hit 500. Personally, I noticed the difference going from an HTA71 to the Green, so going from OEM to Green would mostly likely be quite noticeable. Going from OEM to a Red will definitely be a change. Not necessarily a bad thing, just saying to be prepared for it not to be the same; the car will behave differently. The trade off is being able to wind the engine out higher.
As mentioned above, the stock turbo and Green do not spool the same. I can't find my dyno charts, but I seem to remember about a 400-500ishRPM difference at 20psi. I can't remember how quickly each reached 300whp or 300wtq, though. Also, I don't remember the Green running out of breath... though I had to stop short of 500whp due to fueling issues. Maybe it does, once you hit 500. Personally, I noticed the difference going from an HTA71 to the Green, so going from OEM to Green would mostly likely be quite noticeable. Going from OEM to a Red will definitely be a change. Not necessarily a bad thing, just saying to be prepared for it not to be the same; the car will behave differently. The trade off is being able to wind the engine out higher.
Thank you for all the information guys! You guys rock I love this community to the moon and back. I’m honestly thinking that the spool time on the red is gonna be too much but I’m gonna do some more reading and check out dyno sheets to find what is the fastest spooling 500hp turbo. That’s really all I care about is fast spool and making a good curve but more power up top, obviously there’s isn’t a magic secret to get to my goal but I will make sure I do my research prior. Not to mention I love how the car drives now so it’s not like I’m hungry for more power at this moment but I didn’t build the engine to stay at 400hp ya feel me
The FP Green is probably one of the fastest-spooling 500whp turbos, though I'm sure there are some T3 options that are better, I.E. I've been eyeballing the Garrett GTX turbos, I think it is (it's been a while since I've researched...). 500whp is the "magic" number when it comes to difficulty in reaching your goal without losing characteristics of how the car drove, originally. You just have to accept the car will be slightly less responsive. For the type of driving you describe, you will probably never notice, even with the Red.
You'll find that even though the green makes boost earlier, both turbos make 300wtq right around 4-4200rpm. Where boost comes up doesn't matter, it's where the torque comes.
My car for example, stock motor, S2 cams, bolt on. This was revved to 8k on the dyno, not 8500, RPM is off because the RPM sync was done on a different car. You can see 300wtq at 4k rpm. Then hits the intentionally limited 375ftlbs at about 44-4500, and is allowing to leak a bit higher later on.
The pull before this it made 420wtq at 4400, but we backed it off for safety. Since you have a built motor, you won't have to do that. Also, because this was a stock engine, timing is soft in the spool up area and below 5k to help keep things together. On a built motor, you will have less "lag".
I never had any issues with lag or response when doing role races in Mexico or having fun in the canyons with this setup.
If you want 9 turbo response with some more power, you need a 71hta. If you want more than that, moving up to a red is the best decision.
The best 7163 dynojet results I've seen. Its on a 2.3 so that will spool faster then a 2.2/2.0. It seems to taper more at high rpm then the red if you look at the graph from 6000 on. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...3-dynojet.html
My 2.2 red setup
The EFR series is neat but keeping a stock frame turbo would be easier. Concerning smaller turbo's, These engines can only process so much air so having xxx psi at 3300 will only work so well and compressor surge is a possibility.
The red will make around 400 ft lbs (mivec engine) at 4000 if you want it to.
There are also some good results with the new Garrett turbo's.
You'll find that even though the green makes boost earlier, both turbos make 300wtq right around 4-4200rpm. Where boost comes up doesn't matter, it's where the torque comes.
My car for example, stock motor, S2 cams, bolt on. This was revved to 8k on the dyno, not 8500, RPM is off because the RPM sync was done on a different car. You can see 300wtq at 4k rpm. Then hits the intentionally limited 375ftlbs at about 44-4500, and is allowing to leak a bit higher later on.
The pull before this it made 420wtq at 4400, but we backed it off for safety. Since you have a built motor, you won't have to do that. Also, because this was a stock engine, timing is soft in the spool up area and below 5k to help keep things together. On a built motor, you will have less "lag".
I never had any issues with lag or response when doing role races in Mexico or having fun in the canyons with this setup.
If you want 9 turbo response with some more power, you need a 71hta. If you want more than that, moving up to a red is the best decision.
Alright sir I need you to prove me wrong once again and tell me why I should run the red over the gen 2 gtx3071r
This goon is putting down 430ft lbs by 4300-4500. Wouldn’t this be exactly what I’m looking for? Please prove me wrong you and abacus swear by the FP Red here and i value your opinion.
This goon is putting down 430ft lbs by 4300-4500. Wouldn’t this be exactly what I’m looking for? Please prove me wrong you and abacus swear by the FP Red here and i value your opinion.
A turbo kit is cool. But those results seem off to me. It's make 200wtq at ~4000. That's laggier than a red. And Dynapak always looks weird. I'm not sure how accurate of representation there is for spool up on those graphs.
The Garrett G25-660 spools very nicely on this 2.0L Mivec engine with stock cams, and made 550whp at 30psi.
I'm not dead set on the red. I'm just set on the red over a green.
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Sep 13, 2019 at 09:17 AM.
I'm not dead set on the red. I'm just set on the red over a green.
Screw the green it’s gonna come down to gtx3071r, FP Red, or G25, G30 I’ll just do some more reading. I’m interested to see results on the G30-770 you are gonna build
Screw the green it’s gonna come down to gtx3071r, FP Red, or G25, G30 I’ll just do some more reading. I’m interested to see results on the G30-770 you are gonna build
Those will be around January. But it's going on a 2.2L, so it's gonna come on 4-600rpm faster than you can expect it to on your 2.0L.
A turbo kit is cool. But those results seem off to me. It's make 200wtq at ~4000. That's laggier than a red. And Dynapak always looks weird. I'm not sure how accurate of representation there is for spool up on those graphs.
The Garrett G25-660 spools very nicely on this 2.0L Mivec engine with stock cams, and made 550whp at 30psi.
I'm not dead set on the red. I'm just set on the red over a green.
Edited because I was looking at the wrong graphs in that thread for the gen2 3071 results.
Screw the green it’s gonna come down to gtx3071r, FP Red, or G25, G30 I’ll just do some more reading. I’m interested to see results on the G30-770 you are gonna build
RS Motors has some G25-550 and G25-660 results on their Facebook page. They thought the G25-550 would be good for around 470whp, with the G25-660 coming in the mid-500s.
Do you want a simple build? If so, build for the FP Red. If it's too laggy, it's not that difficult to swap it out for a Green and retune. Worst case, you sell the turbo at a minor loss and move on to a more complicated setup later.
If you're okay spending a bit more, I'd try the G25-550, or maybe the G25-660 with the new divided housing if you're feeling adventurous.
RS Motors has some G25-550 and G25-660 results on their Facebook page. They thought the G25-550 would be good for around 470whp, with the G25-660 coming in the mid-500s.
Do you want a simple build? If so, build for the FP Red. If it's too laggy, it's not that difficult to swap it out for a Green and retune. Worst case, you sell the turbo at a minor loss and move on to a more complicated setup later.
If you're okay spending a bit more, I'd try the G25-550, or maybe the G25-660 with the new divided housing if you're feeling adventurous.
Where are you seeing a divided hot side for the G25? I don't see one on the Garrett or the ATP website.
