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This seems like it will lead to more issues. I don't have a rod bolt stretch gauge to put the bearing caps on properly. Plus whatever debris that could've entered would go into the cylinder walls, scratching/wearing the bores, and out the exhaust valves. Why I'm hesitant to even pull the pan.
-This leads to no issues, if you do the work the right way, and you will clean your engine properly, it is the correct way of doing things in your case. You do not need a rod bolt stretch gauge, there are no issues with your rod bolts, and both oem and aftermarket bolts can be re-used at least once, if they were torqued correctly the first time. You only need and torque wrench.
-There will be no scratching on the cylinder walls, the compressor wheel is made of 6061 aluminum in T6. Most compressor wheels from Asia are manufactured using that, unless you specify otherwise on a custom order. Aluminum cannot scratch a cast iron block, especially one that has been through heat cycles. And if there was any debris or particles interfering with the pistons rings, between piston and ring, then you would have bigger problems.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 12, 2020 at 02:59 AM.
Reason: typo
FWIW Setrab sells their full flow Hyperflow serviceable filter that seems to be pretty neat. I've checked them out at PRI the past couple years and keep telling myself i'm going to get one eventually. Doesn't require any tools to disassemble, just push down and turn on the filter retainer, pull the filter out, wash it out with some brake clean, reinstall and change out the o ring and reinstall the filter assembly.
Yeah I'm really not looking forward to dropping the pan. Mine's pretty much cemented on with RTV to seal and it's dry and leak free, and I don't think a lot got into the oil to begin with. I think what I'll do is pour cheap oil into the filler on the valve cover and leave the drain plug open. I'd rather pick up WIX 51272 or WIX 51210 + NAPA 0w20 (thinking the more viscous oil will pick up more ****) and idle the car for 15-20 mins then flush the oil once I do a new turbo. On that note will a non-bypass filter being used as my main oil filter starve the pump if I drive around with it? Assuming I'm not taking the car past 4500 rpms.
I feel your pain on the pan and I got so frustrated trying to get mine off I just surrendered to the fact I was going to buy a new pan. While I did not do this, you can get some gasket remover and spray it down and it should weaken the bond and allow the pan to pull easily. When your turbo ate the bearing housing it dumped it right into the pan and those pieces are likely sizable enough to cause damage to the oil pump if ingested. I think the Wix 51210 is going to be a winner since it uses steel mesh filtration so I am confident it will be compatible with lube, but just need to make sure it has a decent filtration level to be used as a startup/break-in filter. I don't know the flow potential on the stock oil pump @4500rpm so it is hard to say if it can be used based on the 9-11gpm flow (same as OEM 7092 filter), but it would be easy to determine if you just watch the oil pressure gauge as you drive the car to make sure its' flow relationship to RPM is linear (10psi for every 1K RPM). Also, I would just run some straight 30W or 10W-30 Supertech from Walmart for about an hour at low rpm making sure you reach the oil thermostat temp so you can also flush the oil cooler. You can then drain the oil and put in the 57055 with your preferred oil.
Originally Posted by mazdabish
Thanks for finding out about Wix 57055 too, that's a super common filter (off of 11-18 FB20/FB24 N/A Subarus, $6.50 at NAPA for a 47055 Platinum which is the same as a Wix 57055XP). It makes way more sense to use that as a main oil filter on Evos than the stock one with a 9-14psi bypass valve pressure. With a 9-14psi bypass psi when is the oil filter on a Evo even doing anything? I know my car rarely sees that oil pressure (no balance shafts/oil squirters).
No problem and just a question of going through all the WIX options for M20x1.5, which took about 30 minutes and I needed to do it regardless for my setup. I think it is likely a better filter option as the main filter in the EVO because of the higher bypass pressure (27psi vs 14psi) and because it flows relatively the same with slightly better filtration (15u vs 21u).
Yeah I'm really not looking forward to dropping the pan. Mine's pretty much cemented on with RTV to seal and it's dry and leak free, and I don't think a lot got into the oil to begin with. I think what I'll do is pour cheap oil into the filler on the valve cover and leave the drain plug open. I'd rather pick up WIX 51272 or WIX 51210 + NAPA 0w20 (thinking the more viscous oil will pick up more ****) and idle the car for 15-20 mins then flush the oil once I do a new turbo. On that note will a non-bypass filter being used as my main oil filter starve the pump if I drive around with it? Assuming I'm not taking the car past 4500 rpms.
Thanks for finding out about Wix 57055 too, that's a super common filter (off of 11-18 FB20/FB24 N/A Subarus, $6.50 at NAPA for a 47055 Platinum which is the same as a Wix 57055XP). It makes way more sense to use that as a main oil filter on Evos than the stock one with a 9-14psi bypass valve pressure. With a 9-14psi bypass psi when is the oil filter on a Evo even doing anything? I know my car rarely sees that oil pressure (no balance shafts/oil squirters).
If you think of the bypass more like a regulator it makes more sense. The oil filter is always filtering. What the bypass does is keep the pressure of oil going through the medium between "9-14" psi and bypassing the rest of the oil around the medium.
Lots of effort that could've been saved by purchasing a quality turbocharger.
Hindsight is a *****, if its any consolation the replacement will either be a actual FP54 Green if my housings are good for a rebuild or a MHI 18K if not. Learned the hard way, lol.
Originally Posted by deylag
I would cut open the oil filter, and get an oil sample sent to be tested. No way to tell how contaminated it is until those things happen.
Yup, already dropped my Blackstone sample off yesterday. Oil Filter I'm waiting on my cutter to come in Monday evening, don't want to use a hacksaw/sawzall (makes a mess and contaminates the media I'm trying to look at).
Originally Posted by Jaraxle
So what brand was the turbine wheel & shaft? The compressor housing is blank of markings which indicates to me it isn't even a Kinugawa or Mamba unit.
Also, I see the end of the turbine shaft doesn't seem to be ground down AT ALL.... which means it was balanced only on the compressor end perhaps? If the turbo was out of balance that causes HUGE stresses.
A good sign of a bad turbine from Taiwan is when it is VSR balanced and the end of the turbine shaft has MAJOR grinding. Meaning that there was an imbalance in the turbine from casting...meaning there are major AIR pockets in the cast, meaning it is a ticking time bomb...
For what it's worth I actually got it VSR balanced at PureTurbos after it came into USA. Apparently it checked out and they had to do minimal grinding to balance out. Which makes me think it's possibly poor metallurgy on the turbine shaft + overspeeding during tuning (since it happened as soon as I hit 2nd and it took 33-34psi boost spike). Before I got the car tuned I actually had the intake pipe off and the compressor looked fine with no play. Compressor housing is OEM MHI Evo 6 GSR, and the eBay seller claimed TurboLabsofAmerica. Again, I bought this over a year ago (Feb 2019). At the time it seemed like a reasonable gamble to save $1000 over a FP/Blouch Turbo. I'll try to find markings on the turbine.
Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
I feel your pain on the pan and I got so frustrated trying to get mine off I just surrendered to the fact I was going to buy a new pan. While I did not do this, you can get some gasket remover and spray it down and it should weaken the bond and allow the pan to pull easily. When your turbo ate the bearing housing it dumped it right into the pan and those pieces are likely sizable enough to cause damage to the oil pump if ingested. I think the Wix 51210 is going to be a winner since it uses steel mesh filtration so I am confident it will be compatible with lube, but just need to make sure it has a decent filtration level to be used as a startup/break-in filter. I don't know the flow potential on the stock oil pump @4500rpm so it is hard to say if it can be used based on the 9-11gpm flow (same as OEM 7092 filter), but it would be easy to determine if you just watch the oil pressure gauge as you drive the car to make sure its' flow relationship to RPM is linear (10psi for every 1K RPM). Also, I would just run some straight 30W or 10W-30 Supertech from Walmart for about an hour at low rpm making sure you reach the oil thermostat temp so you can also flush the oil cooler. You can then drain the oil and put in the 57055 with your preferred oil.
No problem and just a question of going through all the WIX options for M20x1.5, which took about 30 minutes and I needed to do it regardless for my setup. I think it is likely a better filter option as the main filter in the EVO because of the higher bypass pressure (27psi vs 14psi) and because it flows relatively the same with slightly better filtration (15u vs 21u).
You convinced me, didn't think about the turbo bearings at all. I'll pull the pan this week, I have time anyways while I save up for the turbo, dropped $1100 on a tune at TSComp last week before this happened so I'm tapped out on major expenses. I just hope it doesn't leak, that's what's really stopping me since I heard the Moroso pans seal like crap but I'll probably end up using Permatex The Right Stuff for it. Oil cooler was always deleted so it should be good.
How much of a chance the oil pump was damaged? Or is that something I won't find out until I drive the car and read my oil pressure gauge?
Originally Posted by EVOFans
Who manufacturer the turbo?
TTE Performance?
Speed Spin Turbo?
Actually unsure. I'll do some more research. Guy was based in Kuala Lumpur. eBay link is 100% dead but found this old ad in a Facebook Group + screenshots in my Email
If you think of the bypass more like a regulator it makes more sense. The oil filter is always filtering. What the bypass does is keep the pressure of oil going through the medium between "9-14" psi and bypassing the rest of the oil around the medium.
That makes a hell of a lot more sense. So if a oil filter has a bypass pressure of 27psi it just means it'll flow through the media at that pressure (IE: more filtration/faster filtration at the expense of peak flow)?
Yup, already dropped my Blackstone sample off yesterday. Oil Filter I'm waiting on my cutter to come in Monday evening, don't want to use a hacksaw/sawzall (makes a mess and contaminates the media I'm trying to look at).
A pair of snips also work for cutting open filters.
That makes a hell of a lot more sense. So if a oil filter has a bypass pressure of 27psi it just means it'll flow through the media at that pressure (IE: more filtration/faster filtration at the expense of peak flow)?
Yes, but it could be that there isn't necessarily an effect on flow. It could be that it flows the same but needs the higher pressure to pass through the filtration media. It would make for some interesting lab testing to see some comparisons.
Also maybe worth mentioning that the bypass pressure will be relative to within the filter itself. So if the oil pressure leaving the filter is say 50psi going into the engine, the bypass will open at 64 psi (pre-filter) to maintain a 14psi pressure differential through the filtration media. Another way of saying that would be that the oil pressure pre-filter should always be 9-14psi higher then the oil pressure post-filter.
Last edited by Biggiesacks; Jul 12, 2020 at 10:41 AM.
You convinced me, didn't think about the turbo bearings at all. I'll pull the pan this week, I have time anyways while I save up for the turbo, dropped $1100 on a tune at TSComp last week before this happened so I'm tapped out on major expenses. I just hope it doesn't leak, that's what's really stopping me since I heard the Moroso pans seal like crap but I'll probably end up using Permatex The Right Stuff for it. Oil cooler was always deleted so it should be good.
I use the Nissan Bond in the caulk tube because it makes it very easy to apply and it is made by 3Bond. It has a 5min window, but I have never had a problem if I just take my time to properly apply and then quickly wipe the bottom of the block one last time with acetone on a fresh rag.
Originally Posted by mazdabish
How much of a chance the oil pump was damaged? Or is that something I won't find out until I drive the car and read my oil pressure gauge?
It is hard to say without inspecting the pump, but the reality is that once you have the pan off the amount of work to pull the oil pump is not that great as long as you have the tool to lock the cam gears. Cost wise it is just your time and two new gaskets (oil filter housing and oil pump) that cost about $10. Just pull the bolts off the pump cover and do a quick inspection and thoroughly clean it out with break cleaner and then repack with assembly lube. I just leave the timing belt off until after the pan is installed and filled with oil so I can put a 14mm socket on the oil pump drive gear and prime the motor with a drill.
Thought I'd share some more carnage pics. Used two prybars to pop the turbo wheels off. Still tempted to just jam a inspection camera into the pan and check it that way. I drove the car for like 3/4 miles after the compressor nut broke off thinking that I just had a boost leak so I have a feeling the worst case scenario already happened.
Next turbo likely gonna be a FP54 or MHI 18K, have a feeling FP is gonna say both my housings are trash (this one has a chip, Evo 9 spare I bought has a burnt white volute due to high EGTs by PO) so may have to do a 18K. Gonna try Blouch too.
Compressor nut was balanced by grind marks pictured Compressor is a KTS D656X, measured a little under 71mm and 52mm. Turbine shows grind marks on the back from balancing, bearing did not look too bad. Measured a little under 61mm and 54mm Bearing material from the thrust plate there Thrust plate No idea what the washer is that's cracked, that cover place is "opened up" like the shaft was grinding away at it. Bearing doesn't look too bad either. Turbine was balanced at some point after assembly.
See chip and grind marks, this was from the turbo that failed with 54/61mm turbine. It's a coated and ported 10.5 MHI Evo 6 housing. This is a Evo 9 Housing, had a stock turbine in it.
It's probably a coincidence but kinda made me chuckle: I had a brand new 10.5 housing that was ported by FP when they built my turbo. I then sent it off to be coated for good measure. That turbo died within a few weeks. I just had to laugh because it sounds like you and I wasted perfectly good, new, coated, ported housings. Yay.
My current turbo is a used 10.5 that I stuck an HTA71 into. No problems ever since *knocking on wood*.
