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Compressor Wheel Failure on 20G

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Old Jul 16, 2020 | 02:15 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
I never personally had an issue using this approach and it has been done at least 8-10 times over the years. If you feel a concern then adding a jack to the process is also a good idea, but if you loosen the bolts to the end where the nuts are still engaging all of their threads, that is low enough to remove the idler pulley bolt.
It's absolutely enough. My concern is using one nut/stud to lower that side of the engine. I've always supported the engine, loosed up the nuts, then lowered the jack until the nuts are supporting the weight. Just preference, of course. I'm no engineer, so it may very well be fine to lower it with the one stud. More than one way to skin a cat
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Old Jul 20, 2020 | 12:11 PM
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The oil pump is officially out of the car and I can't tell if what I'm looking at is good or bad. This was a new pump, currently at 1000 miles like the rest of the motor. Whoever said I might have to pull the head might be right on that too.

Pics of Borescope into the cylinder's after this post.







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Old Jul 20, 2020 | 12:20 PM
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I also got my Amazon 1080P Dual Lens Borescope, it actually takes pictures with the scope and saves them to a MicroSD. I think I have to pull the head at this point. There's also debris and oil in the intake manifold. I used a JE ProSeal Headgasket which claims to "release easy" in the sales literature so hopefully there's minimal cleanup and it's a matter of slapping a new headgasket on and torquing the head studs (ARP 625+) back down.


This is Cylinder 1 closest to the timing belt. Notice that debris.

Cylinder 1 wall, can see vertical lines into the walls. Keep in mind motor has 1000 miles.

Cylinder 3 debris on the piston top

Cylinder 3 Wall, notice the horizontal line

Cylinder 4 Wall, another horizontal line.

Cylinder 4 piston top (farthest from timing belt). Tried picking up the debris with a magnet, didn't do anything probably cause it's copper and aluminum (non ferrous)
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Old Jul 20, 2020 | 12:37 PM
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Current plan of action is:
-Ultrasonic clean the oil pan/pickup, intake manifold, intercooler pipes, oil filter housing, and oil pump (if still good)
-Buy a cheap ($200 or less) Evo 8 Turbo locally to swap my 10.5 Evo 9 Housing over onto it, not gonna spend the $$$ on a real turbo until I know the car is 100%
-Clean out my wastegate and BOV
-Remove the head, clean the cylinders out (already set TDC)
-Put it all back together and run it.

Is it necessary to clean the head out too? I can't tell if my cam caps are worn. Mind you the cams were brand new billet S2s.

​​​​​Just thinking if I get the head cleaned out too I might need new valve seals.

I'm waiting on my Blackstone Analysis. Had another oil analysis done on the oil that was in this motor at a Cat Dealership ($21.78 with tax, 24hr Turnaround). Not worried about the coolant (I think the coolant feed was right over the turbo oil drain when I ripped the turbo out) but the wear metals aren't that bad. But I did find debris in the pan and filter. I'm hoping the bearings aren't shot and the compression is mostly even across the board. Worst case a Airtrek Swap is $1500...





​​​​

Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 20, 2020 at 12:53 PM.
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Old Jul 20, 2020 | 12:41 PM
  #50  
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FWIW, I have yet to find a way to REALLY clean an oil pan, without cutting the baffles out. I guess if cleaning the crap out of it doesn't knock everything loose, neither will the oil? Plus the pickup has a strainer. And you have a filter.
Last time my turbo died, I replaced the oil pan. Overkill? Maybe, I dunno.
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Old Jul 21, 2020 | 10:25 AM
  #51  
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Honestly why I'm gonna trust the ultrasonic machine. At least the pan you can see easily even with the baffles if it's cleaned out if you use a borescope, my Moroso pan has nice little traps in the form of weld beads for debris to get stuck into. I'm more concerned whether my intercooler was properly flushed by the truck radiator shop I dropped it off at, that's way harder to check and I'm even questioning if it's worth reusing if there's crap in the bores. I did make sure to explain what happened, said they used a chemical called Turbo Clean.

The only thing making me a little nervous is the axial wear on the aluminium front case. Gonna spend the day scraping RTV/gaskets off the pan, pumps, turbo oil return so I can drop it off to get ultrasonic cleaned tomorrow. Head comes off Thursday. May get that ultrasonic cleaned too since the shop claims it doesn't hurt valve seals. I have hopes this engine isn't entirely a goner...but who knows if the compression is even.

Is this wear on the case okay? The alum looks very soft, both gears look similar in condition, compared my 1,000 mile oil pump from this engine to a 70,000 mile pump from a stock 2003 8 Not sure if that's good or bad. I realize EvoM compresses these pics a bit that it's hard to tell


1000 mile pump on top, 70,000 mile pump on bottom



1000 mile pump on left, 70,000 mile pump on right



70,000 mile oil pump front case where the gears sit



1000 mile oil pump where the gears sit.

Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 21, 2020 at 10:52 AM.
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Old Jul 21, 2020 | 10:53 AM
  #52  
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If you can feel that with your finger nail, replace the pump. It's already off and they're only $240...
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Old Jul 27, 2020 | 03:39 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
The 51272 will physically work from a mounting perspective though too long for a daily driver. It is rated for hydraulic, but my search on the compatibility of glass media is that it is rated for oil and glass has a higher use temperature rating vs cellulose. I asked WIX if they make any oil filters with glass media filtration and they said YES. Additionally, glass filtration micron ratings are typically absolute whereas cellulose is typicaly 50%, but WIX had no filtration information for the 51272 other than it is rated at 11 micron.
I received the 51272 for $50 and the external body diameter causes it to hit the oil cooler AN fitting on the oil filter housing. Even if I remove the AN fitting the machined base for the AN fitting would still not allow the filter to screw all the way down due to its' large diameter. I think it can still work if I use a sandwich adapter to space it off of the oil filter housing so going to explore that option. Don't order this filter until I can see if it can work.




Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Jul 27, 2020 at 04:01 PM.
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Old Jul 28, 2020 | 10:11 PM
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So here's where I am right now.

Oil Pump, Oil Pan + Pickup + Baffles, Intercooler Pipes, Oil Filter Housing were all ultrasonic cleaned and picked up. I inspected the pump gears according to the spec in the FSM and they checked out (better said, the machine shop did it for me while they ultrasonic cleaned everything). They said the pump case looks serviceable but suggested I use the 70k mile pump gear cover (right from my 2nd pic in my last post) as the 1k mile pump had a scratch that could be felt on a fingernail.

I bought a new 26gal Kobalt Quiet Tech Compressor (impressed at how quiet it is, measured at 77db 2 feet away) and a Leakdown Tester. I also bought a low mileage '03 Evo 8 Turbo for $140 (with manifold, wastegate, etc ready to drop in). I have a IX 10.5 Hotside I can swap over with two snapped studs. The 8 Turbo is just to get the car running and make sure it won't crap a bearing 500-1000 miles from now.

I took the exhaust manifold, cams, and throttlebody off. Intake manifold and rockers/lifters are left to remove before I pull the head Thursday. Before I do that, I did a leakdown test.


Hairline crack in manifold, doesn't seem like it goes through the other side. Its coated and ported so I don't want to let it go but how much time until it leaks?



Cams look okay. Some wear on journals.




Now for my leakdown results (all at 100psi, cold engine that hasn't been ran since this thread was made).

Cyl 1: 15-16% (pic above)
Cyl 2: 10%
Cyl 3: 9-10%
Cyl 4: 10% (furthest from timing belt).

Should I be concerned? Or does this look normal? Cams were out and I set TDC as best as I could (long screwdriver in spark plug hole)
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Old Jul 29, 2020 | 11:29 AM
  #55  
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Can you tell where you are losing pressure in Cylinder 1? My compressor died and I was looking at that Kobalt Unit and the one from Harbor Frieght, both in the 30gallon range. I just don't like that Lowes wont allow you to return if you have a problem and you have to work through Kobalt, which i read can be a pain.
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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 10:20 AM
  #56  
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I ended up going with the Setrab oil filter (M20x1.5) because it appears to have the best filtration capability at 30 microns absolute. The 7092 is 95% efficient at 20 micron and the 57055 is rated at 15 micron "nominal," but WIX was unable to tell me what that meant in terms of an efficiency number. WIX also does not provide absolute filtration values so really hard to compare, but I don't think either will be any better than 30 microns absolute of the Setrab. In all likely hood the 57055 should be good enough for what I need, but purchased the Setrab regardless.

Regarding the spring bypass pressure, this has nothing to do with the oil pressure and is strictly a function of the pressure differential across the filter. So even if you see 80psi of oil pressure, as long as the pressure differential across the filter is less than the spring rating you will NOT bypass the filter element. I think you would be fine with stock 7092 or the 57055 (Subaru).
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 12:04 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
Can you tell where you are losing pressure in Cylinder 1? My compressor died and I was looking at that Kobalt Unit and the one from Harbor Frieght, both in the 30gallon range. I just don't like that Lowes wont allow you to return if you have a problem and you have to work through Kobalt, which i read can be a pain.
I actually have a video. I'm starting to think the 10-16% figure might be accurate. On the tip of a friend I squirted gear oil into the intake/exhaust ports during the leakdown test, gives a better clue as to what's going on. I also reached under the engine and felt air coming from the bores.

I also got the intake manifold off. Found bearing dust AND alum chunks the size of rice grains inside. Just insane the amount of damage that took place lol. I guess at this point I'm just hoping the shortblock can be saved. It's already .20 over, would have to go to .30 over if a hone isn't enough and the rings are shot

Def do the Kobalt Compressor, both Kobalt/Husky are made by Alton Industries (China). You can hear it in the background of the Cyl 2 video. I paid $300 out the door with a 10% off coupon from eBay. Just unsure if it's enough for a big boy 1/2 inch high torque impact @ 4.5 cfm (90psi). It takes 10 mins to hit the 130psi cutoff from empty.

Cyl 1 (worst)
Cyl 2
Cyl 3
Cyl 4



Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 31, 2020 at 12:47 AM.
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 08:22 AM
  #58  
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I assume from the video it is leaking from the valve seat since you have significant bubbling? Possible a chuch of metal damaged the valve or valve seat when ingested into the cylinder. Easier to address a leaky cylinder vs reworking the block. Gonna pull the head?
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
I assume from the video it is leaking from the valve seat since you have significant bubbling? Possible a chuch of metal damaged the valve or valve seat when ingested into the cylinder. Easier to address a leaky cylinder vs reworking the block. Gonna pull the head?
Both.

I actually think I might be in for a motor too. I'm currently cleaning the piston tops with brake cleaner and new shop rags. There's a nice mix of carbon, oil, and metal on them. Kind of insane how much damage took place. Cyl 1 has dings all over the piston top and head.

This is just from wiping my finger against the top of the bore for Cyl 3. Very fine metal dust.






This is Cyl 4, dings on the piston top.

This is Cyl 1, those are dings on the piston top

This is the head of Cyl 1, more gouges in the combustion chamber.

That's a Intake Valve on Cyl 1, notice the gouge on the edge of the valve seat
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 04:13 PM
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I guess I'm gonna be in the market for another block or pistons at least..hopefully going to .30 over (already .20 over) will clean it up. I'm tempted to part out and put the $$$ towards a more reliable platform like a C5 Z06/new Civic Type R under warranty...but also tempted to rebuild purely out of spite.



This is Cyl 1. Big gouge on the intake side wall.


Cyl 2 Intake Side Piston Wall



Cyl 3 Exhaust Side Piston Wall



Ding on Cyl 2

Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 31, 2020 at 06:57 PM.
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