For $200 or $300 I'd agree but for the $937 the Porsche unit runs, I'll flush it to FAA specs.

 

Blow up a Porsche 911 motor, a $900 oil cooler is the least of your worries. I will admit is is expensive as hell for that little POS.- its cheaper to run a block off plate, and buy a large front mount cooler and use that instead.

 

I'll tell you what, have him at least take the oil filter that was on the motor when you grenaded it, and cut it open, peel out the filtering element and look deep between the pleats. That should give you an idea.

 

Actually, I never saw metal flakes, I was exagerating, there was a particle or two I thought I saw. But, I saw these same particles, flakes, whatever you want to call them the last time I change the oil. Which left me confused. Where they there, was it the oil? David pulled the oil pan and said it was perfect and that the bearings were excellent. He said the chunk that came out went out the head and trashed the valves.

 

Thanks for the help there Darkhorse. This is the first engine rebuild we ever did here at Buschur Racing and the first time is always the hardest. (Just a bit of sarcasm)

Of course the oil filter was cut open, of course it has been inspected. I don't talk about rebuilding these engines quite as much as some other guys, but to be honest I don't have time to talk about it as we build atleast 4-6 per month instead of one a year.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

I am not a large production shop. I agree, if anyone wants a motor put together in a couple of weeks , they should go to you. I cannot build a motor in that short of time and do the level of workmanship I want. Even if I worked around the clock for seven days straight, I could not get all the stuff done that I do to make these motors straight. I find too many things that need adressing to warrant them serviceable before putting them in. Why do think half of the stuff I post is parts that I make? Without exagerration, 95% of the parts that I get for any motor need to be gone through and massaged before I would run it. I could never dream of banging out that kind of volume, nor would I want to. 4-6 per month leaves a full motor in less than a week, start to finish, soup to nuts- and cover every aspect of the build, machining, measuring, cleaning, etc? . Damn, you must be good.

 

I respect both you guys a great deal... lets not have a pissing match.

I no longer build aircraft components... but still have a flavor for spot on work. On the flip side, I also remember how incredibly over built most of what we did was. This is you in my eyes Darkhorse. Incredible attention to detail... work taken to the Nth degree, where nothing less than perfect is acceptable.

David is the epitimey of function... not substandard work, not settling, not just getting by, but good solid usable quality. David, I'm sure, could go to the extreme degree of detail Darkhorse does, but why? If it works, use it.

This is an off color example, but I remember a Navy Seal's comments on the argument of them using a 9mm vs. larger calibers... the statement basically came down to "...if I put two 9mm rounds in your heart, and one in your head, you won't care what size the bullet was..."

If Buschur can continually run single digit times down the strip without a rebuild as many times as Darkhorse, or anyone else, then what is the point? Or use road racing for an example... It doesn't matter if the build gets the job done. I take great pleasure in reading Darkhorse's articles about want he has made... but I know that David's quality is closer to my pocket book, and will do what I need it to do just as well.

 

I will say something, I talk with a lot of people day in and day out (I'm in sales), I can always tell when someone doesn't know what their talking about, and I can always tell when someone knows a lot. David knows everything, you call this guy up, he can give you 15 stories and 5 technical explanations, by the end I just say, whatever you say. He really is the 4G63 master. The other day I asked him about Eagle rods, because everyone says Crowers are better (and cost twice as much). Then he tells me: Davids rods are modified Eagles, their modified, and he uses them in all his cars, including the one that runs 7's, and he's never broke a single rod, even at 10K RPM. Who else could have provided me with this information?

 

Thanks metaphysical.

Darkhorse, I honestly respect what you are doing, really. I have only known a few guys in my life that pay attention to detail the way you say you do. Problem is I don't know one of them that can make a living or get paid for this type of attention to detail. What you are talking about is a huge investment of time, time that not many (1 in 10,000) customers are going to be willing to pay for.

The bottom line in my mind is basically this. There is a factory spec from Mitsubishi on these engines, every part of them, more or less. The factory engine goes 200,000 miles with the correct maintanence done on it. It is a damn good piece. I was recently reading something you wrote about the valve guides and the cam caps not being good enough. Rather than getting in on your thread and saying I thought it was bull**** I stayed out of it. You could very well be right, the cam caps on the engine might not be on to .0001, but I gaurantee you that you won't have a problem running them just as they are right out of the box. 1,000's, yes 1,000's of these engines have come through this shop and I have never seen a single problem with a factory cap. This makes me respect the detail you are giving your work but it also makes me wonder WTF for? There are things that need to be given a lot of attention and some that need little or none. I cannot take 1 week or 2 weeks to do an engine, I would be out of business. There are some other shops that can't deliver on time and we pick up most of their pissed off customers who are tired of waiting. The guides, while we are on the subject, are a restriction in the head on the flow bench, in our all out race engines we cut them off flush, make them even shorter than they were when stock. You said they needed to be longer, this is another case where it isn't needed. They last cut almost in half from what they are stock.

Not argueing with you, as I said, I have respect for what you are doing. I just think a lot of it is overkill and completely not needed time and expense.

On a side note, another of our "quicky" built engines just went an 8.2 at 167 mph in Aruba, it is in, of all things, a Honda CRX and YES it is a Mitsubishi 4g63. This engine has been in the same car for over 2 years running now.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Its cool, I am not angry or offended, nor am I trying to outpiss you. I mentioned this way back when, we have different philosophies. Not that mine is better than your or vice versa. I have plenty of customers that want the work done to the level I do.

On the cam caps, they are what they are. They are fine the way they come, and will be so for 10,000 motors for 99% or the people. But I had one head that came in and had a lifter noise. I rebuild that caps and line honed it and the noise went away and the oil pressure became more steady. I had another head that when you installed the cams, and rotated them, you could feel a drag on them. I mean, they spun fine, but then I rebuilt the caps and honed it, and then when you put the cams in, and spun them, it was effortless, like they were tunning on ball bearings. For some, absolutely, its like splitting hairs, too expensive, too involved, etc. But I am doing it to know. I do a motor to that level, I know every inch of it, its more intimate for lack of a better word. Most people are not interested or concerned with the difference. Everyone wants it yesterday and for $1.99, and to be able to provide that, you cannot take the necessary time to adress all this stuff. You can argue that why bother, other motors are fine, etc. When I get some time, I am going to get two stock EVO motors, run them both, bone stock, and take one apart and do everything that everyone thinks is bull**** on it, put it back together and run it again. If you do that on a smallblock, for example, we have gained 35-40 hp, changed nothing, just blueprinted the hell out of every part. Not only is there a power gain, but a reliabilty gain as well, since the parts that you are now taxing the hell out of have a fighting chance instead of holding on for dear life b/c they are bent, too big, too small, too loose, too tight, not flat, not rigid, etc. Thats the reason to do this work, to better the breed. Theres nothing wrong with taking the OEM stuff, bolting on some things and gettign some big numbers, but thats not building an engine.

You can compare tons of scenarios. The difference between a porno and making love, both get you off, but one requires more investment of time and emotion. Rolex and Timex, both tell time, so whats the difference. But if I am going to spend the time, then I have to get paid for it, and be able to justify the end result.

The guide may be a restriction in the head, but cutting it in half takes soooooo much rigidity away from the stem. You can take away the guide in that area, but the valve stem is still there, so that in itself is a restriciton, only now wen the cam opens it, at full lift, at full load, at full boost, and at 9,000 RPM, the head of that valve is waving around out there at the end of that stem like a branch on a tree on a windy day. When the spring pulls the valve closed, it will slam off the sides of the seat to find home, instead of just closing.

It would be like hanging 9 inches of dick out in a hurricane and trying to **** in a dixie cup- what kind of control could you have? now you would have a better chance if you choked up on it and grabbed it with both hands up near the head wouldnt you?I have had about 5 heads from race motors brought in to me for valve sealing problems, all that had the guides chopped flush with the port floor like that. And when I pilot off the guide, and touch down to see the seat, maybe 70% of the stone contacts the seat, always on the side of the seat opposite the high part of the guide since it gets cut to follow the curve of the port floor. The valve, I chuck it into the valve grinder and find that it bent, and the face is beat since its been getting hammered all over the place.

In my opinion, I would rather sacrifice a percentage of flow aroud the guide, and have a better chance of holding the guide straight through its travel, and also get the heat out of it since there is more material to transfer it into , and when it closes, have it CLOSE and seal against the seat, rather than having it bounce around and lose a percentage of cylinder pressure since the valve cant find its way home, and it running hotter since the heat that gets int othe valve at the head, now has to travel down another .250 before it gets in the guide where it can get some help in transeferring heat. The negatives outweigh the positives when you cut a guide down like that.

 

Thanks for keeping it calm guys. A nice debate is healthy.

To be honest, I called several places and got quotes. I don't have a lot of money, so price was a very important concern. The car cost 30K new, if I had the money for a 15K dollar race engine I wouldn't be driving an Evo. I could see this if you were competitively racing with 2-3 spare engines and a 100K budget, but that's money I could spend on tires and track time. Add up Hoosiers at $225 a pop, you get the idea.

Downtime was the second concern. I don't want to miss the rest of the racing season. I hear these guys on the Supraforums waiting 6 months to get their car finished and I wonder how you can possibly rationalize that.

So, David hooked me up with a great deal, and offered to get my car back in action fast. And to boot, the guy knows what he's doing. His pro-class car ran 7 seconds over a year ago with almost no sponsors and a very tight budget. Brent Rau finally beat it with full sponsorship and Bullish Motor Racing helping them. David is the 4G63 Master.

Darkhorse: I want to see Tom's car in action at the shootout! That thing better be done! You keep showing us pictures of these custom components, 0.00000001 tolerances, custom headstuds - let's see how that beast tangles with the best.

Back to getting on the road:

Well in the last two weeks I lost a very expensive chipped key, blew my motor and hit a parked car. So, I will be quite relieved to get my car back and let some energy out at my local autocross.

Anyhow, I just bought a gauge-tech display today to monitor my EMS and engine functions. The extra-bright LED light is really what I want, to monitor knock, a/f, etc. If I can find some money in my couch I might buy a Oil Pressure gauge. These Defi BF gauges are nice, but they cost a lot of money. Ideally I would like a Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure and Oil Temp, but that's a lot more money, and then I have to buy a Craig Hardy panel to mount them.

And I'll be installing my DerekDevises meth/water injection kit also. I have a 3 Gallon tank, and I'm going to start with just water.

 

Can't say this old man has tried that in a while...

 

Sorry, I couldnt help. Too much internet **** The question within that is if you need to fold it in half, or borrow a couple of inches?????

 

 

Update: Parts back from machine shop, hopefully Friday.

Shiv, if anything you proved the opposite of Darkhorse. You put the stock engine, and it's mediocre tolerances and build quality (not my words ) though the one lap. Not only that, you did it with high-boost and won your class. So, I'm definetly not to worried that my engine is going to now have build tolerances much greater than the factory engine and it's going to use all forged internals, the same internals that David uses at 30+ Psi and 10,000 RPM. Try not to infer that David uses mediocre tolerances that are only good for Drag Racing, because I know you are. I'm just hoping your car attends the DSM shootout and the West Coast Track shootout, so we can see how your cars and Darkhorse's cars stack up against Buschur gang (and RRE in the track event). Just a little friendly competition.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the gauges, I might just go with Autometer and the Craig Hardy panel. I suppose I don't really need the fancy playback, etc. I figure it would be a really good idea to have oil temperature, oil pressure and fuel pressure.