Do you have any tech or experiences with both devices back-to-back on the dyno to offer? If not, your statement was simply placed here to cheapen this thread. I'd hypothesize with authority that I've seen a lot more XEDEs and UTECs than you have.

When you see one device consistently extract more repeatablity than another one, its safe to say you have a very strong piece of data. Plug your ears and sing if you want; I was a TurboXS customer in the past and am reporting my findings as well as explaining why I'm much happier as a Vishnu customer.

 

Fear not. Your mod list is virtually identical to mine, including the TME 10.5t turbo. In fact, I'm having them all installed next week. I've chosen the Xede, and it has been effectively tuned for these mods on at least several occasions, yielding very impressive results. What this should tell you as that your options are open - you are not forced to get the AEM system if you don't want to.

 

Not much to input here, this is all opinions and we all have one.

As for the AEM EMS though, it was said here that it is a race oriented product and makes you give up some factory features (something along those lines). That is 100% completely false.

There is nothing lost when running the AEM. Everything works that I know of as far as factory features go, other than the diagnostic port anyway. If 100% complete control and awesome datalogging abilities means it is race only then I guess it is, to me it just means you will always have the ability to tune and monitor anything you ever change on the car.

The EMS comes with a really good base map for the EVO already in it. Our Stage 3 package (quite a bit of parts included in this compared to other Staged vendor packages) will start and run really well on this base map.

Changing injector sizes and such from there is fairly simple if you just read the help menu that is right in front of you on the screen.

I guess I am pretty much in love with the EMS. After years and years of tuning with inferior products and going very fast doing it seat of the pants it is just nice to have something that can do it all.

We have cars running around here with 1,000+CC injectors in them and getting 25+mpg, will idle all day without stalling and we have the ability to change any engine parameter at anytime. I like the system.

Buying the EMS from us gets you set up with a pump gas and a race gas tune if you bring the car here for free. We don't just do a dyno tune for WOT. This is a crap way to get the car tuned in my opinion. There is much more to tuning the car than making some numbers on the dyno at WOT. The driveability is what is important in a street car. If you buy it and can't come to us for tuning we will help over the phone so you can get it done yourself or e-mail maps to you. BE ADVISED THOUGH......this is a very difficult thing to do and getting the cars driveability PERFECT is impossible for me to do without actually hearing and driving it.

Just this week I had a customer come here with is EVO. I have sent quite a few maps back and forth. At WOT the car was right on the money. Easy to tune that really. The car ran like **** though, would stall when you stopped, didn't really rev clean, mileage was poor. I spent 4 hours on the car on Monday and when it left the car ran like a stock EVO. I am waiting to hear back from him on the fuel mileage.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

As Dave said, there's no question it takes time and some skill to setup the AEM for drivability, and he's absolutely right about the time and effort involved in making a car completely drivable, he is the expert at it and if thats the path you choose, definitely consider Buschur Racing for the parts and tuning aside from my EM path. With that said, I'm running quite a few buschur components.. Of course this is off topic for this thread.

 

i run all BUSCHUR components...............and the BR580 is un real Dave!!!!!!!! it pulls like a mother on 24psi.....and 94 octane. as soon as my trans is fixed were going to the track, i was on the hiughway and hit 126 mph and still in 4th gear...seems fast as all hell and spool up is no issue and seeme quicker than my BR500 setup???? no complaining here!! i need to get the AEM or UTEC soon, im thinking UTEC because of the price and thats all i have to say know!

kevin

 

Pardon me, but unless I'm missing something, this is a contradiction. If the factory diagnostics are inoperative, than you do give up some factory features.

 

Not really a contradiction, Teddy bear. The AEM features extensive datalogging (Much more than you can do with a MATCO OBD-II Scan Tool) and monitoring of sensors. You just lose the OBD-II, but you still can see what's going on with the parameters that the sensors function in.

 

Although this is good info about the AEM, isn't it a bit off topic for this thread?

 

Well, that's just it and the crux of my point. I have my own very good reasons (warranty related) for intentionally keeping the factory OBDII diagnostics intact and functional. Not everyone needs to be concerned about that, but some of us do.

 

whoohoo! Let's have the standalone vs. flash vs. piggyback debate again! Just kidding.

For us 'package' buyers I like the XEDE. I like the timing control, and additionally, when / if I get to the "going-to-get-a-new-turbo" stage, I like the option of flashing the stock computer to 'flat' curves, then modifying the params. in the XEDE. I also see the XEDE being sold for $895, and the TurboXS (couldn't easily find the EVO price, had to use the STi price) being sold for ~$1050.

0.02

jcnel.

 

Loosing the OBD-II system means that you no longer have the ability to constantly monitor and report the performance of hundreds of sensors and subsystems. For instance, I don't see any stand alone monitoring angular crankshaft acceleration or each combustion event. Or fuel system vapor pressure (or lack there-of). Or Fuel Pump Secondary Circuits. Or even Power Steering Pressure Sensor Circuit. And so on. These smarts are useful, to say the least. Especially in a highly modified car where long-term reliability and driveability is directly proportional to one's ability to troubleshoot and repair mechanical failures immediately (before they become bigger problems.) I can't tell you how comforting it is to drive and race a car for 6000 miles (in 1 week) during One Lap of America and know *exactly* what (and what isn't) going on mechanically.

Standalone diagnostic systems are very simple in comparison, only thowing codes when sensor values (ie. voltages) are above or below a user-defined range. They do not involve any computation more serious that that so their ability to diagnose a cars mechanical ailment is very poor (and that's being generous).

Also lost when upgrading to a engine control system that relies on fixed timing and/or fuel maps is its ability to effectively (and predictably) adapt to changes in environment (octane, temp, altitude, etc,.-- and any combination thereof). Aftermarket knock control systems, altutude compensations, temp compensations, etc,. are not very effective when compared to their OE counterparts. I think this has as much to do with hardware and code limitations as it does user-end programming. I spend a lot of my time tuning Motec systems for World Challenge cars and while even the best stand-alones have their advantages, the have a whole slew of drawbacks. They aren't the way of the future anymore, IMHO. The days of simple and dumb factory ECUs are long gone. That's one thing that you can thank CARB for

My 2c,
Shiv

 

Exactly, all of which harks back to my comment regarding race oriented standalones. They have their place, but I have my requirements for my warrantied street driven vehicle. My requirements demand that my system retains the MAS and OBDII, and I have my reasons. Enough said.

 

"126 mph and still in 4th gear" ... um, My Evo manual isn't near me, but isn't the recommended limit in 4th 108MPH?

Anyways,
I lean towards UTEC because of *lcoation* ... TurboTrix or Pruven will tune UTEC, not so sure about XEDE. I agree with the weight towards actual tuning making any given EMS work well.

As for the other off-topic, AEM is what really I want... but not sure if I should get it because I live in Mass. (I think they rely on OBDII for state inspection on late model cars but not positive). For now it's cost prohibitive because I would seriously think about taking a few days to get it tuned by Buschur. Cost for parts, install, travel, and tuning will add up on me, thinkin' around $2,500. UTEC should run me about $1,500 when all is set and done.

 

MATH_POWER to the rescue!
108mph in 4th is 6600rpm
113mph in 4th is 7000rpm (indicated redline)
126mph in 4th is 7750rpm, and a breath from hitting the rev limiter.

So 126mph in 4th is definitely possible.


Turbotrix will definitely tune an XEDE.

 

Wow, who woulda thought this thread would turn into a civil, coherent, and informative thread?

Terry S