What are the pros and cons of these two systems. Im looking for something with more control than an afc, but I dont want to spend $2000 either. Which systems offer the most bang for the buck?

 

Having seen and used both on the dyno, there is no comparison to me.

From about the 50 XEDEs and 30 UTECs (although the latter mostly on Subarus) I've seen on the dyno, the XEDE has more repeatable fueling (especially on Subarus), and a much more user-friendly interface. The UTEC has static timing, and was the misfire code throwing champ on the EJ205 Subaru motors. Back when I had a WRX, we used to call it the "EJ20 death code".

I (as well as many local friends) had TurboXS equipped WRXes, even back to the Unichip days. All of us, including a UTEC guy who made more power with an ECUtek shelf map flash on his WRX than his custom tuned UTEC, have now switched to Vishnu. The cool part of that is that everyone is now making more power.

**Edit** Its also ironic to me that TXS has one of the highest reading dynos in the country. Their Dynapack baselined an Evo at 254whp, where Vishnu & Dyno4mance's Dyno Dynamics read 200whp for most stock Evos. There's no marketing slingshot like high dyno numbers.

 

If you are considering spending close to $2,000 on fuel management there is really only one choice for something you can tune yourself, that is the AEM EMS. The control and datalogging abilities just can't be beat by anything else on the market.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

DB,
His point was that he doesn't want to spend 2,000.

 

Sorry, I read it too fast, I thought it said if he was going to spend $2,000. Still no other choice in my book. The HKS V Pro is something else to consider but the tuning has to be done by a certified V Pro dealer and can't be changed by the end user. I am installing one on the new RS in the next day or so.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

It seems as though the XEDE has a number of advantages over the UTEC. Are there any points at all where the UTEC wins out? Anyone know where they have some good writeups on the XEDE other than vishnu's website. Not that they don't have good info, but im afraid they may be a bit biased.

 

I know that shiv does dyno days once in awhile on the east coast, but are there any shops that are based on the east coast and have experience working with the XEDE?

 

I think the AEM EMS is overkill and enough rope to hang yourself with if you are not relatively expert or working alongside an expert. But don't take my word for it.

 

Any EMS, even a damn fuel computer is enough rope to hang yourself with.

I personally was running a WRX with a UTEC, and never threw a misfire code, and made WAY IN THE HELL more HP that the ECUTEK that I had. With the ECUTEK, we were only able to pull 266WHP, when I added the UTEC, and SELF TUNED it on the SAME DYNO (ATP ini Fremont, CA), I was able to coax 337HP out of it.

Don't talk smak about the UTEC, it is a great piece of equipment. I don't know too much about the Xede, but I would not rule it out either because it sounds like a good piece of gear to. My choice is between a AEM, UTEC, or the Xede.

 

As an ex-XEDE owner i can say i was unsatified with the money spent. I should have saved $500 in the frist place and got myself a BR tuned S-AFC II and MBC. Then put the 500 into saving up for stand alone.

 

True but with a piggyback you've at least got some slack in the noose.

EDIT: OK, not the best analogy but I think you get my meaning

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=99271

This thread is kinda along the same lines and really should be merged into this one..

Its important to note that both products have their merits, I have my preferance as others have theirs. But I find that the features that some claim are advantages for one product, are the exact reason why they are seen as disadvantages on the other.

As mentioned, the static timing.. Well, when you have control of timing, good tuning becomes more of a factor since your not dealing with offsets to fudge things. Ultimately any product can make the gains you want.. But its the user or tuner who makes the power, not the tool. Although tuning by offsetting the sensors works, I don't see that being of any benefit to anyone except that its easier to add or remove a degree of timing, than it is to figure out a timing map for yourself. But if you have a cranky ECU, offsets will only lead to inconsistent results, the only way to do that is to make it less sensitive to the sensor inputs that it uses.

The big problem with tuning by altering the MAF signal is it indirectly alters your timing, you can overcome this by controlling your timing directly, or you can use a timing offset to put it back where it was (or tune it how you like) but there is only a range of adjustment you have.

There are still limits to intercept based devices, since there's only so much you can alter things before you cause problems. This applies to most piggyback systems that don't control the injectors directly (like a standalone might) Plus, without a reflash, those devices can't adequately eliminate fuel cut, alter rev limits, or scale for aftermarket injectors. The reflash can also make for consistent base maps for both the interal ECU maps to tune from which would otherwise not be required in something that can control timing and fuel directly.

Use your judgement and pick the tool your local guys are most comfortable working with...

If time, money, and ease of use (configuration time) weren't an obstacle for many of us, I would likely recommend the AEM even though I prefer the UTEC.

 

The hardware is only as good as the tuner. If you have someone locally that knows the Xede or UTEC inside out, go to them for tuning and use the appropriate hardware. If you are tuning the car yourself, I would think that the UTEC would be the clear winner as it has some features that the Xede doesn't.

 

My main beef with the UTEC is fueling consistency. Hence the misfire codes with the Subaru. After a custom tune from a TSX authorized shop (not TSX themselves), the customer couldn't extract more than 220whp without getting misfire codes. He swapped to an ECUtek shelf map and made 245whp with zero misfires. That's been over half a year ago, and this car still has not thrown another misfire code.

Another customer with a custom tuned UTEC, we'd see four or five perfect runs on the dyno, followed by one with a wicked knock event that threw a misfire code and graphed an air:fuel spike in the ~14:1 vicinity. This was not an aggressive tune by any stretch of the imagination, just a vf30 car that was stumbling to top 255whp on a dynojet. The customer decided to try an ECUtek after lots of trail and failure. After the custom tune on the ECUtek about half an hour later, car procured 272whp with every following run showing repeatability and no misfire events.

I'll be the first to admit that Subarus are much more fussy than 4G63s, but it isn't a coincidence that there are a lot of EJ205s in the boneyard that were connected to UTECs.


As far as the SAFC, it is a good economical tool _if_ tuned on a dyno, but the fact that you can't advance/retard timing makes it very limiting. I picked up area under the curve when I went to a reflash from the SAFC and made exponentially more power everywhere from WOT tip in to fuel cut on the dyno when I went to the XEDE.



Challenge: I can arrange dyno access and would welcome any similarly modified UTEC car to a dyno challenge to measure output, curve shape, and repeatability against my XEDE car any day of the week. If we can't find a UTEC car with similar mods, I'll find an XEDE car with the same mods you have. Somebody in the Southeast step up to the plate if you're interested in this for scientific truth. I've seen far too many results on all three types of dynos to have any fear of losing this challenge. If I lose, I will cover your dyno cost and price of fuel to travel to Dyno4mance 100%. Any takers?

 

I understand where your coming from, but its really hard to compare the subaru platform in that way.. It has its own set of quirks that may or may not be aggrevated by aftermarket components. on the Evo UTEC, its a different overall unit, I've never had weird misfires or other issues (that type of misfire your describing sounds more like a fueling problem but it doesnt rule out the engine management either)

It would be interesting to see a side by side dyno comparison, but unfortunately even similar cars can be different enough to adequately compare that the gains/losses/differences arent due to other factors. The right way is to use the same car with both tools..