View Poll Results: So what are you getting?
I\'m sticking with my evo.
74
44.05%
You crazy with a 2.5L and DCCD Sti all the way.
48
28.57%
I\'m waiting for people to test both on deciding.
34
20.24%
I\'m confused at this point leave me alone.
12
7.14%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll
Show of hands II. Buying an evo or sti after subaru's press release. Post thoughts.
Ahem, JDM 4g63s do not suffer from crankwalk. The stock wrx has been known to crank out 167whp up to as high as 190whp. (Derek from MachV's wrx dynoed at 19Xwhp stock)
Oh, and the JDM 6speed is just as problem-prone if driven hard as the 5speed. I know of two local guys who have done the $12k tranny swap only to come up with a busted gear a month later.
Oh, and the JDM 6speed is just as problem-prone if driven hard as the 5speed. I know of two local guys who have done the $12k tranny swap only to come up with a busted gear a month later.
Well, they have the two subie transmissions placed side by side on i-club. The 6 spd weighs 85 more pounds, and is almost twice as big as the 5. The bellhousing and especially the center section is HUGE compared to the 5. Even the final drive is bigger. As to the local guys breaking gears in the 6 speed, what kind of HP are they putting out? Nothing is indestructable.
Even the vaunted Mitsu 5 speed can have problems. Just read some of the posts on MLR. A few of those guys are having issues too. This debate is going to go on for a while, but it's kind of like arguing about football teams before they play. We won't know until they go head to head, so shut the f### up
E in LA
Even the vaunted Mitsu 5 speed can have problems. Just read some of the posts on MLR. A few of those guys are having issues too. This debate is going to go on for a while, but it's kind of like arguing about football teams before they play. We won't know until they go head to head, so shut the f### up
E in LA
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
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I gotta say this...
-the sti will be putting out 300 hp and that will be chump change compared to what it can do.
-the 2.5 liters is awesome and anyone who wishes it was 2.0l is smokin crack.
-from what i've read on sti..that 6 speed is bullet proof.
-I think the sti looks slightly better..but not much.
-I think the evo will be a better deal..probably $33k for sti??
-I think that competition is great for us..the consumers..because in the long run..were gonna see better prices on these things.
check out the sti @ http://impreza.subaru.com
-in 3-5 years we might have some cool, affordable, fast, 4 door, awd cars
-the sti will be putting out 300 hp and that will be chump change compared to what it can do.
-the 2.5 liters is awesome and anyone who wishes it was 2.0l is smokin crack.
-from what i've read on sti..that 6 speed is bullet proof.
-I think the sti looks slightly better..but not much.
-I think the evo will be a better deal..probably $33k for sti??
-I think that competition is great for us..the consumers..because in the long run..were gonna see better prices on these things.
check out the sti @ http://impreza.subaru.com
-in 3-5 years we might have some cool, affordable, fast, 4 door, awd cars
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Petaluma, CA
You cannot compare dyno results from different dynos on different cars on different days. On our dyno on the day a stock EVO VII with 94 Octane gas made 70 WHP more than our stock WRX. That is pretty impressive. Still nowhere near our 380 WHP stage 3 2.0 liter stock engined WRX(100 Octane ), let alone what we will wring out of the 2.5 liter STI with a stage 3 set up. The reliabilty question was asked earlier and thats why I mentioned the crankwalk issue. I realize that EVO motors do not exhibit those symptons and I hope that the US bound EVO is no different. As far as the STI trannie is concerned we have already seen the JDM 6 speed and can attest to the fact that it is stronger than the US market 5 speed unit. We will also be picking up an EVO in 2-3 weeks and will start playing with it to see what kind of performance is lurking in the US spec 4G63. I agree it is a great time to buy performance cars again in the US.
Brett.
Brett.
I have a STi 6 speed in my car. It is all that and a bag of chips. It is bullettproof. Even the big timers in Japan are happy with this tranny.
It has been called one of the best production AWD 6 speeds in the world. It weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs. Rumor has it that porsche was in on the design scheme.
There is supposed to be zero case flex, and the gears are around twice as thick as the subaru 5MT. Plus it has a seperatley contained beffy **** front sure track (Made by AP if you racing guys know who that is!) LSD.
One major drawback is the low gearing. Top speed at 8000 RPMs is around 163. Because of the 3.90 F/R ratios
They are not cheap though...
Andy
It has been called one of the best production AWD 6 speeds in the world. It weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs. Rumor has it that porsche was in on the design scheme.
There is supposed to be zero case flex, and the gears are around twice as thick as the subaru 5MT. Plus it has a seperatley contained beffy **** front sure track (Made by AP if you racing guys know who that is!) LSD.
One major drawback is the low gearing. Top speed at 8000 RPMs is around 163. Because of the 3.90 F/R ratios
They are not cheap though...
Andy
Yeah, the 6 has tons of "ribbing" (yes, that is a layman's term 
) all over the outside for reinforcement. Most people have said that the 5 spd's problems are from case flex, and if you've seen the two side by side, you'll understand why.
Have I said before I want an front LSD? In fact, that is the EXACT reason I didn't buy a WRX. THings should be interesting between the both, regardless.
E in LA
) all over the outside for reinforcement. Most people have said that the 5 spd's problems are from case flex, and if you've seen the two side by side, you'll understand why.Have I said before I want an front LSD? In fact, that is the EXACT reason I didn't buy a WRX. THings should be interesting between the both, regardless.
E in LA
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Posts: n/a
gtr,
your first thread didnt get deleted. Why would it? I moved it to "Other cars", which is what a Subaru is when you post in "US Evo Pre Arrival Discussion".
As for the gearbox command (lever) on the STI, I find it very unprecise and long for a sports car. Talking about the European version 6 speed gearbox which I suppose is the same.
your first thread didnt get deleted. Why would it? I moved it to "Other cars", which is what a Subaru is when you post in "US Evo Pre Arrival Discussion".
As for the gearbox command (lever) on the STI, I find it very unprecise and long for a sports car. Talking about the European version 6 speed gearbox which I suppose is the same.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 8
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From: SAINT LOUIS, MO
I think Subaru may have done all of us 
faithfu a favor. If the STi ends up w/ a true 300 hp AND is lighter than the EVO than no dealer in North America will dare try to charge above MSRP because people will walk out the door and spend that $30k over at the Subbie dealership.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that both cars will be of comperable weight and eventually end up w/ similar pricing structure which means if really wants to gain the lions share of the market they'll have to stop *****-footin' around and come w/ the ***** up car we all know the EVO can be.
Look for this all to happen in production year two or three ( along w/ falling prices ), after that it really will " a good time to be a car nut"!
faithfu a favor. If the STi ends up w/ a true 300 hp AND is lighter than the EVO than no dealer in North America will dare try to charge above MSRP because people will walk out the door and spend that $30k over at the Subbie dealership. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that both cars will be of comperable weight and eventually end up w/ similar pricing structure which means if
really wants to gain the lions share of the market they'll have to stop *****-footin' around and come w/ the ***** up car we all know the EVO can be.Look for this all to happen in production year two or three ( along w/ falling prices ), after that it really will " a good time to be a car nut"!
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 62
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From: Irvine, CA USA
Re: Show of hands II. Buying an evo or sti after subaru's press release. Post thoughts.
Originally posted by gtr
My first thread got erased and it showed 50% of ppl buying is going to switch.
Here's my thougths. Evo specs.
1. Twin Scroll-Awesome
2. Drivetrain- Since we dont' have ACD why not at least give us a front limited slip?
3. Price 29K- cheaper than STI
4. Suspention- Awesome. JDM spec (Nearly 1G's)
5. Proven transmission+
6. Love the 4G63. Many generations proven engine. Probably most all bugs are out after 8 evos
7. FMIC- Another great reason to not buy subarus.
8. weight-3300lbs "including almost 200lbs bumpers
Price to pay for FMIC with good air inlet.
My thought on STi
1. Regular turbo- What? no equal length headers?
2. Drivetrain- DCCD,limited front and mechanical limited rear "awesome" I'd admit it probably spanks my car.
3. Price- TBA Probably mean it's expensive.
4. Suspention- Sti what kind? Spec C, Type RA? What ever it is i doubt the scooby will pull 1G on the skid
5. New but trans proved to be bullet proof. Also a close ratio 6-speed "plus"
6. 2.5L
. More clueless with this than anything. Variable valve is cool though. Maybe after mods torque will break the unbreakable 6speed and DCCD? I'd feel more comfortable with the 2L rally engine 4g63 thank you very much.
7. Heat soak top mounted intercooler with limited space. Need to say more?
8. Weight... com'on unannounced? I wonder why. I'm guess 3450lbs. Wrx gain over 100lbs from the JDM.
Our car is available shortly over who know's how long? Maybe 5 months est. was a trick to let evo customer to not buy one and then 7month later the sti with 5 grand over the evo's price. Who know's what will happen with those sneeky subaur marketing stratigist.
We also get 2.1 lock to lock! Recario and seatings and yes we have a radio!
Sorry subaru. Your too slow and you haven given the price and weight which are both very strong topics.. Probably sound bad so they left it out.
If i had ACD and limited slip front diff i would not consider the sti. Hear that ? After thinking about price and weight I'm going to sick with my evo. I like the looks better too.
Don't let subaur's spec fool you b/c they left the most important part out. Weight=handling. If they say lighter than the evo then i might change my mind.
This thread is to hear other opinion not telling them their opinion sucks. So let hear it from your point of view.
My first thread got erased and it showed 50% of ppl buying is going to switch.
Here's my thougths. Evo specs.
1. Twin Scroll-Awesome
2. Drivetrain- Since we dont' have ACD why not at least give us a front limited slip?
3. Price 29K- cheaper than STI
4. Suspention- Awesome. JDM spec (Nearly 1G's)
5. Proven transmission+
6. Love the 4G63. Many generations proven engine. Probably most all bugs are out after 8 evos
7. FMIC- Another great reason to not buy subarus.
8. weight-3300lbs "including almost 200lbs bumpers
Price to pay for FMIC with good air inlet. My thought on STi
1. Regular turbo- What? no equal length headers?
2. Drivetrain- DCCD,limited front and mechanical limited rear "awesome" I'd admit it probably spanks my car.
3. Price- TBA Probably mean it's expensive.
4. Suspention- Sti what kind? Spec C, Type RA? What ever it is i doubt the scooby will pull 1G on the skid
5. New but trans proved to be bullet proof. Also a close ratio 6-speed "plus"
6. 2.5L
. More clueless with this than anything. Variable valve is cool though. Maybe after mods torque will break the unbreakable 6speed and DCCD? I'd feel more comfortable with the 2L rally engine 4g63 thank you very much.7. Heat soak top mounted intercooler with limited space. Need to say more?
8. Weight... com'on unannounced? I wonder why. I'm guess 3450lbs. Wrx gain over 100lbs from the JDM.
Our car is available shortly over who know's how long? Maybe 5 months est. was a trick to let evo customer to not buy one and then 7month later the sti with 5 grand over the evo's price. Who know's what will happen with those sneeky subaur marketing stratigist.
We also get 2.1 lock to lock! Recario and seatings and yes we have a radio!
Sorry subaru. Your too slow and you haven given the price and weight which are both very strong topics.. Probably sound bad so they left it out.
If i had ACD and limited slip front diff i would not consider the sti. Hear that
? After thinking about price and weight I'm going to sick with my evo. I like the looks better too. Don't let subaur's spec fool you b/c they left the most important part out. Weight=handling. If they say lighter than the evo then i might change my mind.
This thread is to hear other opinion not telling them their opinion sucks. So let hear it from your point of view.
-You can put a FMIC on a scooby.
-The one you will get isn't as good as the one imported by Evolution Imports, unless you want to do the work...
-US Evo=5 speed, STI=6, Evo Imports=6
-STI has Suretrak - similar to AYC
-STI has ACVS - their version of VTEC
-STI has active diff, Evo8 by Evo Imports has AYC/ACD
-STI interior is primo
-It's up to RalliArt to rock the Mitsu house.
That said...we cannot provide assumptions until both are tested. Check out Evo, Car, Autocar mags.
If you are a die hard Mitsu driver...I'd probably go for Evo Imports...and no, I do not work, nor am I associated w/ Evolution Imports.
Last edited by codemunky; Jan 9, 2003 at 10:25 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
My vote - I'm still buying the Evolution.
And if in a year or two releases an updated version of the US Evolution that looks attractive enough, I will sell this one and upgrade.
My $0.02 on this whole discussion:
Everyone needs to realize one thing, more than anything else:
Stats on paper are 1/100th as important as everyone is making them out to be.
Yes, the STi looks like a monster on paper... based on very limited information.
Yes, the STi might well have a slight edge in acceleration when it is released... at the cost of a few extra thousand dollars over the Evolution.
The Evolution should be a superior car in just about every way, especially when you weight your evaluation in regards to price. It should have the edge in handling, in "fit and finish", in build quality. It has a proven engine that's amazingly tunable.
I'd be willing to bet that given equal drivers, the Evolution will turn in a faster lap time on any given track than the STi. Not that lap time is necessarily the ultimate measure of a car's performance, but its a better measure in my mind than is published HP/TQ ratings.
I'd also be willing to be that with only half the price difference of the STi versus the evolution, the Evolution will either equal or outperform the STi 0-60 and in the quarter mile (again, not that 0-60 or 1/4 mile is the ultimate measure of a car's performance... but in my opinion its the only place the STi will have a significant edge out of the gate). If there's really going to be a four grand price difference between the two cars, that's quite a bit. Two grand in the aftermarket spent on the 4G63... you're going to be sitting at 300+ usable HP and torque pretty easily, I assume.
I guess all I'm saying is that I still have faith in ... this car is going to rock, I can't wait for delivery in February...
And if in a year or two
releases an updated version of the US Evolution that looks attractive enough, I will sell this one and upgrade.My $0.02 on this whole discussion:
Everyone needs to realize one thing, more than anything else:
Stats on paper are 1/100th as important as everyone is making them out to be.
Yes, the STi looks like a monster on paper... based on very limited information.
Yes, the STi might well have a slight edge in acceleration when it is released... at the cost of a few extra thousand dollars over the Evolution.
The Evolution should be a superior car in just about every way, especially when you weight your evaluation in regards to price. It should have the edge in handling, in "fit and finish", in build quality. It has a proven engine that's amazingly tunable.
I'd be willing to bet that given equal drivers, the Evolution will turn in a faster lap time on any given track than the STi. Not that lap time is necessarily the ultimate measure of a car's performance, but its a better measure in my mind than is published HP/TQ ratings.
I'd also be willing to be that with only half the price difference of the STi versus the evolution, the Evolution will either equal or outperform the STi 0-60 and in the quarter mile (again, not that 0-60 or 1/4 mile is the ultimate measure of a car's performance... but in my opinion its the only place the STi will have a significant edge out of the gate). If there's really going to be a four grand price difference between the two cars, that's quite a bit. Two grand in the aftermarket spent on the 4G63... you're going to be sitting at 300+ usable HP and torque pretty easily, I assume.
I guess all I'm saying is that I still have faith in
... this car is going to rock, I can't wait for delivery in February...
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 62
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From: Irvine, CA USA
Originally posted by atlvalet
Have I said before I want an front LSD? In fact, that is the EXACT reason I didn't buy a WRX. THings should be interesting between the both, regardless.
E in LA
Have I said before I want an front LSD? In fact, that is the EXACT reason I didn't buy a WRX. THings should be interesting between the both, regardless.
E in LA
Evolved Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: roseville, ca
Originally posted by jedinite
...The Evolution should be a superior car in just about every way, especially when you weight your evaluation in regards to price. It should have the edge in handling, in "fit and finish", in build quality. It has a proven engine that's amazingly tunable.
I'd be willing to bet that given equal drivers, the Evolution will turn in a faster lap time on any given track than the STi...
...The Evolution should be a superior car in just about every way, especially when you weight your evaluation in regards to price. It should have the edge in handling, in "fit and finish", in build quality. It has a proven engine that's amazingly tunable.
I'd be willing to bet that given equal drivers, the Evolution will turn in a faster lap time on any given track than the STi...
I think its best to wait until SCC runs a full flegded test.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Originally posted by Score
Thats totally hypocritical. All we have now for the Evo are stats on paper. Saying its stupid to make assumptions about the STi but then you make assumptions about the Evo. I think its best to wait until SCC runs a full flegded test.
Thats totally hypocritical. All we have now for the Evo are stats on paper. Saying its stupid to make assumptions about the STi but then you make assumptions about the Evo.
I think its best to wait until SCC runs a full flegded test.
I never said it was stupid to make assumptions about the cars. Assumptions are pretty much all we have at this point...
At this point in the game, I'm running on the assumption that the Evo will have 20-30 HP and TQ less than the STi but will cost $3000 - $5000 more.
I think you have to factor price into the balance... so the question becomes either:
1) Which is a better car from the factory, for the money?
or
2) Given identicall spending (spending some of the price difference in the aftermarket) which will be a superior car
My bet (based on assumptions) is that the Evolution will win scenario #2. By bet (based on assumptions around comparing the Evo-VII versus the previous WRX and WRX STi) that the Evolution will win #1 as well... based on better handling and almost identical performance for a few thousand less....
I agree completely... we'll know for sure in six months or so, when the STi arrives and is tested against the Evolution...