First off i would like to say Al is right, i think i jumped to conclusion about what seemed to be the problem with my dyno numbers. I was listening to what evotexas had to say because maybe it was what i wanted to hear, i wanted the problem to be solved right away, and blaming something was the easiest thing to do. Its easy to say well its dynoflash tune that is making your car put out bad numbers, and just switch tunes and youll get 50 whp like i did (evotexas). I guess this was a lessoned learned. Anyways i guess i will try trouble shooting the problem with Al, but then again it may not be my car it could be the dyno shop. Anyways i was wondering Al if you recieved my dyno sheets via Fax if not i will try and Email them or post them myself again.
Also UT EVo what was your base dyno run on a mustang dyno?

 

You know what big guy? You don't know a fraction of the story. I don't recommend you get involved. I used to support Al, I picked him up from the airport when he came to Dallas, I used to promote him to my friends, etc. I had a problem, he showed no interest in helping me, he placed blame everywhere but himself, and I was pissed. TurboTrix took GREAT care of me, and so far everyone else I have put them in touch with. WTF do you expect me to say?

Anyways, Al and I do not have issues anymore and I do not berate him anymore. Don't try to start things up again, big boy.

 

lol, Amazing.

The story for my FRI

It's sad to see members and vendors tearing themselves apart like this. It's not worth it to burn bridges and make yourself look dumb on the net over couple WHP. I have done this before and let me tell you that I felt like a kid. Choose your tuner and be happy.

 

I agree. But this is not to say that if you feel screwed over, too bad, because you already chose your tuner so "be happy." Sometimes it doesn't work that way. I have found mine and recommend when asked. Seems simple enough.

 

Ok - today I received the dyno sheet from my customer via fax

Now I have some comments to make about his tune and mustang dynos

I have been interested in mustang dynos for some time and how they work as I am considering several dynos at this time and I decided to call the kind folks at Mustang to see how the Mustang dyno works and how the numbers could be effected

First some dyno sheets to look at. Here first is the dyno sheet from my customer who started this thread



Some general thoughts, its obviously a very smooth quality tune looking at the shape of the curve the tq line is almost totaly a flat edge line. Without a doubt, I am very happy with the way this tune is working on this partcular car. Its smooth as silk and there is obviously zero evidence of any knock or detonation what so ever so its a very safe tune as well. Peak whp is not what makes a car a fast driving car but rather the useful poower band and the area under the curve. Here we have a huge tq curveand the peak tq comes on in a very fast and useable manner by 3100 which makes for a very pleasant car to drive. The area to the left of the peak power is almost totally flat - a great power band.

The issue then is with the peak number produced which seems LOW - at least compared to other dyno jet numbers which seem to read higher.

Lets explore this situation a bit more carefully and see if we can start to figure out what is going on with these Mustang dynos

 

Here is a dyno sheet from a Dyno Flashed car with similar mods - yet a very different out come

In this case the car was NOT properly tuned. Mr. Dumatriat had previously recieved a dyno flash on a stock fuel pump and his very strong evo had maxed out the stock pump. On May 22, 2004 he had installed the Walbro pump without a retune, causing the power to fall off significantly on the top end as the a/f curve would go very rich into the low 10's. He attended a dyno day back in May with teh car in an untuned condition and this is what he made :



We can see that the quality of the dyno curve and the shape is inferior to the previous tune which was much more smooth and linear.

However the raw number was greatly higher on the second sheet

351 tq is frankly insane for a evo with NO CAMS and at the time I was very impressed with the numbers. I heard that Mp5 was there at the time and I was happy that my Dyno Flashed car had bested all the other cars there that day.

But what do these numbers mean when compared to other Dyno Jet dynos or even other Mustang dynos ?

What does the number mean and how do Mustang dynos work ?

Why are we seeing such a huge variation from one car to another on Mustang dynos ?

I will answer some of these questions shortly

 

Nice to see someone on this forum actually admit when they might be wrong. I have the same mods as you and I just put down these numbers on a DD dyno with the DynoFlash. I am sure you guys can get this squared away.

BTW - EVOTEXAS, I put down the exact same numbers you claim to have when you switched from the DynoFlash to the TT tune before you got cams, 308awhp. They are all good tuners, there is onlyso far you can safely go with a tune.

 

What does the value 'HP @ 50 MPH' represent? (Please, no 'it represents the HP at 50 MPH comments ). That's one glaring inconsistency between the 2 sheets as the low dyno has a value of 1.2 while the other has a value of 11.5. What sort of effect does that value have on the outcome of the graph?

 

207.9whp with 91 octane pump gas...it was about 40 degrees F too, if you want, I can post the dyno sheet, it is attached to my registered ride though...
now there is the issue of setting the weight, but all the Evos here have been dynoed on the same weight after weighing a few and after the flash I will be weighed on the same weight...the shop TOLD me that the weight doesnt make THAT big of a difference, a few horsepower maybe...but they told me that, so who knows

Oh, and in case it matters, it was ~215 wtq

 

No doubt man. That wasn't the problem as much as the lack of support. If there was an effort to at least TRY and help me fix it there would have been no issue.

 

There was nothing wrong with your car to "fix." I personally drive your car and the tune was working very well - a vast improvement over the stock base tune as noted by my OBD II data logs. Your boost was tapering more than normal and I noted that to you and suggested you try the heavier hallman spring and ball. I gave you all he "support" you could ask for, personally test driving your car for a half hour, scanning your data and setting your boost controller for you and then answering your telephone inquiry. What else could you expect me to do ?

You try and spin this ridicuolus story that I somehow screwed you and your car was running so weak. Bottom line is that none of it was true. Your car was running as expected with a through the mail flash, cat back and mbc. Should be just about 275 whp to a DYNO JET dyno which was what you were making.

You do not care for my customer service - but maybe you just did not want to hear the answers which I was giving you. I refunded all your money to you and now you have a free tune from TT so you should be happy. But instead you contiunue to post misleading and distorted claims about your power gains between the two flashes which are totally inaccurate.

Some people may have unrealistic expectations about what to expect from a $199 through the mail reflash. Your car ran, it ran smoothly and obviously your engine did not blow up. AND - it ran better than it did before I flashed it - BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION - read above. I think that is a resaonable result from a $199 through the mail flash.

If you wanted to shoot for the highest possible power levels a slightly more expensive custom tune would have been better for your purposes in which we can safetly monitor the data and tune the car more to the safe limit for a particular car.

I can honestly tell you that breaking whp records was NEVER one of my considerations when desigining the calibrations for the through the mail flashes. Smoothness, reliability and margin of saftey are always the primary criteia which any professional tuner should place first in setting up a through the mail tune.

I hope that readers who have the time to read through all the quotes of yours I have posted above will come to the conslusion that your observations are inaccurate and that you are obviously making these misleading statements in exchange for free tuning services and in an effort to promote dyno days which youare organizing.

 

that is like stock dyno ....if you have those mods that is way low

 

al knows what hes talking about

 

...a little late on the response there 04RS...I think we've come to that conclusion...heh

Anyway, large margin of safety and low chance of engine blowing up is all I care about, gaining 10whp safely is a lot better than gaining a risky 50whp...cuz who knows how long you'll be able to use that 50

 

That is a minor issue

It seems that with the Mustang dynos they are set to read lower than typical dyno jet dynos which we are used to here in the states. In the rest of the world dynos wuch as the Dyno Dynamics read significantly lower than dyno jet numbers which we are used to.

It seems that the Mustang dyno has end user adjustable settings in the set up screens for the CORRECTION FACTOR and the DRUM WEIGHT - both of which can significantly alter the measured whp. These numbers can not be manipulated on a dyno jet.

In addition, the Mustang can be run on various different operational modes, interia mode - or varying controlled operating modes where a load is applied and a consant legnth of pull is defined.

All of these totally adjustable aspects of the Mustang mean that UNLESS the two Mustang dynos are set up EXACTLY the same as each other the results on them are totally irrelevant to compare as the differences in the set up calibration on the dynos may have more to do with the varying power levels than the tuning or actual power.

Here is some data on this from Mustang's web site

"Mustang's MD-7000 software package, featuring our exclusive Virtual Inertia™ Technology, enables advanced high performance shops to simulate the scientific laws of mass and motion without leaving the safe confines of the shop environment. Mustang has engineered it's software program to recognize the inertial and aerodynamic characteristics of late model vehicles, thus supplanting the need to mimic drive cycles at the track or on the highway. So regardless of the fixed inertia of the dynamometer itself, the MD-7000 Control Platform has the ability to adjust road-load in accordance with the characteristics of the vehicle under test."

All of these additional settings are great for helping to diagnose a particular car but they make it hard to draw comparisions from one dyno to the next if the settings on the dyno are not the same.

The concept of dyno tuning is really to test the individual car against ITSELF to serve as a way of measuring how changes in mods and the tune effect the power delivery on THAT CAR. In many cases it becomes totally idiotic to brag about how much power one makes on the dyno.

In this case - Evotexas is bragging about numbers without even having the dyno sheets to support the claims. It is totally possible that all his gains or losses may be the results of improper calibration of the dyno he is using.

Finally, the gentleman who first started this thread and with whom I spoke today was telling me that stock STI's dyno at 211 whp on that dyno - (they are good for between 250 - 260 to the wheels on our Dyno Jet at Pruven). That being the case - then his numbers with his mods on a evo with mail in flash are not only decent - they are excelent, especially his tq.

I always felt the best test of power was trap speed in the 1/4 mile - very hard to manipulate unless a leave blows through the traps.

In summary - any dyno that has end user adjuatble base calibration settings is NOT a good tool to use to compare to other dynos which may have varying settings.

BTW - for those intrested in an excelent discussion of how Dyno Jet dynos work and how they are calibrated AT THE FACTORY - please read this http://www.idavette.net/hib/dynojet/