Thanks 1stinline.

No, I'm not in marketing... just a fourth-year med student at UT-Southwestern in Dallas, home of Parkland Hospital and where JFK wound-up after Oswald .

Lets just pray that Mitsu sees it this way too.

Later.

 

First off, let's get one thing straight: MMC will not send only the GT-A (Automatic) over for America.

However, they will concentrate on it.

They learned their lesson in the Japanese Domestic Market. Their main competitors (for that level of car) is the Impreza WRX/Legacy B4 Sedan. I'd say from the marketers point of view, mainly the B4. The B4 is a sales leader right now in Japan, and is in the same size class as the Evo. Actually, the Evo is technically one size larger, due to the width of the fender flares. But the body/interior otherwise is in the same class and is marketed as such. The Impreza is also in the same size class, that's a fault of Subaru, making two cars in their line-up that are in the same classification. But I digress.

Now, back on subject - the B4 is their target. 280hp twin-turbo, 5 speed, cheaper than the Evo, w/more space and luxury. The main kicker is that 75% of sales are of the automatic B4, which is only 255hp. So marketing in Japan wants a slice of that pie, they cobble together a INVECS-II equipped version of the Evo, with 268 hp and about 20ft/lb's more torque than the B4 automatic. It can't win on luxury or price (it's about $6000 more than a B4), so they concentrate on performance and power.

Now, the problem is that Americans have the hubris to assume that the automatic was made for *them*. No, sorry, it's a JDM priority. It doesn't mean that it's not going to come to the states, but it was not developed because marketing research said Americans only buy automatics.

Now, as for the automatic itself. It's not a horrid autobox, it's not the best, either. It does the job well enough, though. It is not as fast as a stick in any way, though. Not from a standing stop, not in motion. It's got pretty terrible lag below 2500rpm, and the box itself couldn't take full engine output, so it was detuned a bit. This also means that the GT-A may not take to aftermarket mods like the stick version will - you may have to stick with the stock output to keep the tranny alive.

But there is a good chance that the majority of sales will be automatics, because the majority of all car buyers are not enthusiasts. I believe automatic versions of Corvettes outstrip that of stickshifts, for example.

Doesn't matter, though, there will be a stick option, and the people that want that will buy that.

Paul Hansen

 

if anyone has driven a fast turbo car on freeway then he should know the advantage of automatics. Of course manuals give you total control over the vehicle, but in my post I've been emphasizing FREEWAY and drag, which automatics CAN be faster than stick (not due to inexperienced manual driver). Drive one and you'll know what I mean. Previous experiences with automatic TT supra beating 6-speed TT supra that has 30~40 more hp on the freeway enables me to conclude.

 

Automatics *can* be, but in this case, it's not. Among other things, there's just enough lag below 2500rpm that launching the GT-A will take a *lot* more time than the stick version. It's realllllly laggy. Plus the stick version makes about 30-40 more hp and makes about 20-30 more ft/lbs of torque, has a broader power band with more top-end, and is a bit lighter.

Paul Hansen

 

Hey GlobalCLK,

Never dragged... so I can't argue against that. But, the weight diff between an auto and a stick as well as the power loss inherent within an auto, let alone turbo lag for forced induction autos, seems that the stick would win.

The only thing that I can think of that can explain an auto winning in a drag is that the driver of the car just mashes down on the accelerator and steers the car, while the manual guy needs to shift as well.

Also, the hp ratings of the car may have been off... Where the Supras' outputs measured on a dyno, or was it word-of-mouth numbers from the dealer or from added mods?

Remember, just because two cars are the same, from the same production line and differ only by tranny, the variations between engine parts secondary to inherent manufatcturing production tolerances will result in variations in output figures between the cars. So, for example, a quoted 250hp at the crank could actually be 220hp on one car and 265 on another. Hence the holy-grail of luckily purchasing from the dealer, but more likely making a blue-printed motor.

I'd really be interested if the hp difference was actual from dyno numbers... let me know.

 

The main reason that proponents of the auto argue that the auto transmission is faster than a stick is because an auto can hold boost between shifts. The turbo on a stick has to spool up each time you shift. That is basically the advantage of the auto. To bad the auto doesn't have the luxury of a high rpm clutch dump though.

I have driven both Supra TT auto and 6 speed . I couldn't tell much of a difference. Seat of the pants tells me the stick was quicker however the auto does gain some between shifts.

I personally would rather have a stick.

 

you're absolutely right on that.

The 2 Supras in my post,automatic one was stock 320hp from factory, and the 6 speed was after filter, exhaust, and boost controller, dynoed on the dyno for wheel hp and then calculated into crank hp of close to 360.

I guess automatics are more "inexperienced driver - proof" so there's actually less variation in performance numbers when compared to stick.

 

GlobeCLK,

I guess based on what 1stinline said about the ability of auto engines to keep the turbo spooled during up-shifts because of the shorter time between gears may explain the difference in straight-line acceleration between the auto and stick Supras. Dunno, but based on your dyno numbers it may be the case.

 

exactly.

and that's the main reason why I said that turbo auto cars are sometimes faster.

But you're totally right on the other parts where the manual gets the advantage

 

Hey

This Evo7 doesnt sound like an Evo at all...whats with the automatic?!?!

I live in New Zealand and just got a 1993 Evolution 1... there are Evos everywhere over here and there aint no such thing as an auto Evo!!!

I can't believe you americans havent had Evos all this time......you have been missing out.......Evo3's kickass!!! and 1's are right behind them!

forget the auto! boycott it!

 

Wow, I ll take the 5A/T with the +/- on the steering wheel anytime!! In the city traffic who wants a stick........and beside you can always have
a little fun on your for a little shifting

But I also wanted the front hood scope too, hey is that an option?!


JY

 

Hey richardrr66,

Yeah, we in the States have been shafted by Mitsu. Why they wouldn't bring the Evo only they know... perhaps because of no auto to garuantee larger sales. Maybe because of the influence of PS2 and GT3 and Mitsu's realization that the U.S. isn't all about fat and slow cadies and SUVs. Or perhaps, it's image make-over time. Regardless, that's why there is a huge tension and bs speculation among American car enthusiasts about what we will exactly get... praying that they bring us the unadulterated Evo VII.

But as Paul noted, we will probably get both the auto and stick, since Mitsu is making the GT-A for Japan, they might as well sell it here too.

So we will have both, and there's nothing wrong with choice. Especially, if drivers like John16V purchase an auto... which only means more Evos on the road and more Evos to come .

Cool.

Hey, does anyone know if the JDM Evo7 comes with hollow-cams?

 

Yes it does come with hallow cams

 

Thanks.

I remember reading it on this Evo7 spec PDF file I found on the net... but I can't find it now.

Hey 1stinline, I noticed you're from Austin. Great town. What do you do there?