subaru guy takes a ride in shivs EVO 8
Mar 17, 2003, 04:55 PM
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Impreza or Evolution
There seems to be a fundamental problem in this forum thread. People compare the wattered-down WRX with the EVO. Before jumping to any conclusions, bear in mind that had Subaru brought the European spec WRX, the handling would be quite similar to the EVO.
I read the whole specifications manual for the 2004 WRX STi, around 30 pages ADOBE PDF file. This is what I think:
1) The setup of the engine with Variable Valve Timing and semi closed deck will be a ***** to remap and/or proceed to internal mods like camshaft profiles, rods, pistons etc. The horizontally opposed (boxers) have this handicap to the I4 engines.
2) In terms of temperatures, you will see the EVO generate great heat, to be extracted from the hood vent. While stopped, I have observed in my cousin's EVO 6 in Europe there is heat rising from the hood vent! On the other hand, the boxer splits the heat on the right and left side of the engine. That's why they can have top mount intercoolers. Try that on a I4 engine and you'll find your cylinder head integrated with the intercooler core...
3) The ACCD feature of the Sti is a major advantage for saving gas. Switch to 65 rear/35 front while cruising, and not only you will save gas, but you can achieve better top speed than 50/50 AWD.
Those are a few. I saw an EVO today in a dealership, I am thrilled. I own a WRX, but I'll wait until the Sti comes out.
The final choice is between the EVO 8 and the Sti.
Peace
I read the whole specifications manual for the 2004 WRX STi, around 30 pages ADOBE PDF file. This is what I think:
1) The setup of the engine with Variable Valve Timing and semi closed deck will be a ***** to remap and/or proceed to internal mods like camshaft profiles, rods, pistons etc. The horizontally opposed (boxers) have this handicap to the I4 engines.
2) In terms of temperatures, you will see the EVO generate great heat, to be extracted from the hood vent. While stopped, I have observed in my cousin's EVO 6 in Europe there is heat rising from the hood vent! On the other hand, the boxer splits the heat on the right and left side of the engine. That's why they can have top mount intercoolers. Try that on a I4 engine and you'll find your cylinder head integrated with the intercooler core...
3) The ACCD feature of the Sti is a major advantage for saving gas. Switch to 65 rear/35 front while cruising, and not only you will save gas, but you can achieve better top speed than 50/50 AWD.
Those are a few. I saw an EVO today in a dealership, I am thrilled. I own a WRX, but I'll wait until the Sti comes out.
The final choice is between the EVO 8 and the Sti.
Peace
Mar 17, 2003, 07:09 PM
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Re: Impreza or Evolution
Originally posted by jgrams
There seems to be a fundamental problem in this forum thread. People compare the wattered-down WRX with the EVO. Before jumping to any conclusions, bear in mind that had Subaru brought the European spec WRX, the handling would be quite similar to the EVO.
There seems to be a fundamental problem in this forum thread. People compare the wattered-down WRX with the EVO. Before jumping to any conclusions, bear in mind that had Subaru brought the European spec WRX, the handling would be quite similar to the EVO.
In Japan, nobody bothers tuning the WRX. They simply start with either a new or used STi. A used STi is better than a new WRX. Any used STi is better than a new WRX for tuning.
The WRX is a great all-around car, and it does have enough power and suspension to get out of it's own way. But on a relative scale, it's not that impressive compared to the Evo or the STi.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
Mar 17, 2003, 07:15 PM
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Re: Impreza or Evolution
Ok, I have some issues with the following:
What about if Japan brought us the full blown Evo then? You mention Evo vs STI more than Evo vs WRX. Same can be said here.
2) In terms of temperatures, you will see the EVO generate great heat, to be extracted from the hood vent. While stopped, I have observed in my cousin's EVO 6 in Europe there is heat rising from the hood vent! On the other hand, the boxer splits the heat on the right and left side of the engine. That's why they can have top mount intercoolers. Try that on a I4 engine and you'll find your cylinder head integrated with the intercooler core...
Even with it split to 2 sides, heat rises last time I checked, right? So, you'll have the ends of the intercooler heating up, rather than the center, I see, huh? Just because it's split a little doesn't mean it'll keep anything cooler. Plus, tell me what's better, force feeding air in a hugely un-aerodymanic hood scoop where you only get as much air as the scoop is big, or a nice front mount intercooler, down near the ground where the air is cold and you can also redirect that air through a normal radiator and up and out of the engine, without not much aero hit.
3) The ACCD feature of the Sti is a major advantage for saving gas. Switch to 65 rear/35 front while cruising, and not only you will save gas, but you can achieve better top speed than 50/50 AWD.
Ok, first it's DCCD. I'd figure that you'd know that after reading your 30 page manual. 
Switching center diff won't help gas mileage hardly at all. The engine still needs to spin the axles just as fast. It also won't help top speed at all, since the gear ratios don't change at all. You just simply move the available power to the rear around a little.
There seems to be a fundamental problem in this forum thread. People compare the wattered-down WRX with the EVO. Before jumping to any conclusions, bear in mind that had Subaru brought the European spec WRX, the handling would be quite similar to the EVO.
2) In terms of temperatures, you will see the EVO generate great heat, to be extracted from the hood vent. While stopped, I have observed in my cousin's EVO 6 in Europe there is heat rising from the hood vent! On the other hand, the boxer splits the heat on the right and left side of the engine. That's why they can have top mount intercoolers. Try that on a I4 engine and you'll find your cylinder head integrated with the intercooler core...
3) The ACCD feature of the Sti is a major advantage for saving gas. Switch to 65 rear/35 front while cruising, and not only you will save gas, but you can achieve better top speed than 50/50 AWD.
Switching center diff won't help gas mileage hardly at all. The engine still needs to spin the axles just as fast. It also won't help top speed at all, since the gear ratios don't change at all. You just simply move the available power to the rear around a little.
Mar 17, 2003, 08:16 PM
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Re: Re: Impreza or Evolution
Originally posted by Fireball
Ok, I have some issues with the following:
What about if Japan brought us the full blown Evo then? You mention Evo vs STI more than Evo vs WRX. Same can be said here.
The proportions are unfortunate. The USDM WRX is largely watered down as compared to the JDM WRX. On the other hand, the EVO 8 basically lacks AYC and the mode switch for gravel, tarmac and snow. The above features are barely noticeable unless you are WRC driver.
Even with it split to 2 sides, heat rises last time I checked, right? So, you'll have the ends of the intercooler heating up, rather than the center, I see, huh? Just because it's split a little doesn't mean it'll keep anything cooler. Plus, tell me what's better, force feeding air in a hugely un-aerodymanic hood scoop where you only get as much air as the scoop is big, or a nice front mount intercooler, down near the ground where the air is cold and you can also redirect that air through a normal radiator and up and out of the engine, without not much aero hit.
The boxer engines produce less heat than the inline fours due to:
1) I4s fight gravitational forces as they move up-down in a rotational pattern. Flat engines (boxer) don't have to cope with that.
2) There is far more vibration produced by the simultaneous motion of four pistons (I4s) as opposed to the boxer engines where cylinders are horizontally opposed (2 against 2) and thus their motion neutralizes vibrations at large.
Why do you think there are so many V engines out there?
With regards to the intercooler, I am with you when it comes to front mounts. Subaru chose to have it top mount to improve weight distribution and center of gravity. Anyway, in the World Rally Championship they use front mounts and this says it all.
Ok, first it's DCCD. I'd figure that you'd know that after reading your 30 page manual. Switching center diff won't help gas mileage hardly at all. The engine still needs to spin the axles just as fast. It also won't help top speed at all, since the gear ratios don't change at all. You just simply move the available power to the rear around a little.
Ok, I have some issues with the following:
What about if Japan brought us the full blown Evo then? You mention Evo vs STI more than Evo vs WRX. Same can be said here.
The proportions are unfortunate. The USDM WRX is largely watered down as compared to the JDM WRX. On the other hand, the EVO 8 basically lacks AYC and the mode switch for gravel, tarmac and snow. The above features are barely noticeable unless you are WRC driver.
Even with it split to 2 sides, heat rises last time I checked, right? So, you'll have the ends of the intercooler heating up, rather than the center, I see, huh? Just because it's split a little doesn't mean it'll keep anything cooler. Plus, tell me what's better, force feeding air in a hugely un-aerodymanic hood scoop where you only get as much air as the scoop is big, or a nice front mount intercooler, down near the ground where the air is cold and you can also redirect that air through a normal radiator and up and out of the engine, without not much aero hit.
The boxer engines produce less heat than the inline fours due to:
1) I4s fight gravitational forces as they move up-down in a rotational pattern. Flat engines (boxer) don't have to cope with that.
2) There is far more vibration produced by the simultaneous motion of four pistons (I4s) as opposed to the boxer engines where cylinders are horizontally opposed (2 against 2) and thus their motion neutralizes vibrations at large.
Why do you think there are so many V engines out there?
With regards to the intercooler, I am with you when it comes to front mounts. Subaru chose to have it top mount to improve weight distribution and center of gravity. Anyway, in the World Rally Championship they use front mounts and this says it all.
Ok, first it's DCCD. I'd figure that you'd know that after reading your 30 page manual.
Switching center diff won't help gas mileage hardly at all. The engine still needs to spin the axles just as fast. It also won't help top speed at all, since the gear ratios don't change at all. You just simply move the available power to the rear around a little.
But again, the 65/35 would probably give marginal results.
jgrams
Mar 17, 2003, 08:30 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Impreza or Evolution
Originally posted by jgrams
Why drag racers stick with 2WD still, even though AWD offers better launchings?
But again, the 65/35 would probably give marginal results.
jgrams
Why drag racers stick with 2WD still, even though AWD offers better launchings?
But again, the 65/35 would probably give marginal results.
jgrams
Mar 18, 2003, 09:10 AM
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jgrams: you are forgetting a few things..
1st.. We got a crappy watered down WRX.. why would SOA give us a nice STi? I know the EVO is pretty nice. Thats why i got one. Because it is here NOW! Sti might be nice, might now. The EVO has always been known to be a better track car. IMO
As for the top mount.. You don't know what you are talking about.. Top mounts are a joke so who cares. They sucked on the 2nd gen RX-7 and are not much better in the WRX.
You know they heat disapating out of the EVO hood vent.. well guess what, the WRX does that too at a stop light.
Drag racers do RWD because of weight distribution.. And my 84 RX-7 with slicks can pull a 1.4 60 ft.. Which is faster then the fastest AWD launch i have ever seen.
AWD launche good on the street But sux on the strip.
-Zach
1st.. We got a crappy watered down WRX.. why would SOA give us a nice STi? I know the EVO is pretty nice. Thats why i got one. Because it is here NOW! Sti might be nice, might now. The EVO has always been known to be a better track car. IMO
As for the top mount.. You don't know what you are talking about.. Top mounts are a joke so who cares. They sucked on the 2nd gen RX-7 and are not much better in the WRX.
You know they heat disapating out of the EVO hood vent.. well guess what, the WRX does that too at a stop light.
Drag racers do RWD because of weight distribution.. And my 84 RX-7 with slicks can pull a 1.4 60 ft.. Which is faster then the fastest AWD launch i have ever seen.
AWD launche good on the street But sux on the strip.
-Zach
Mar 18, 2003, 12:27 PM
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Come on guys, quit mouning.
At least you overthere already have the EVO 8 (we have to wait until end of this year to get one) and you get the 2.5 STI version (which we are never going to get on the European continent.
But then again you have been waiting for a long time..........
The STI and the EVO are, though designed for rally 2 complete different cars. However both are highly tuneable. With modest changes the output on a EVO6 can rise to 350 HP and on a EVO7 to around 380. ECUTEK works wonders on a STI.
That said a STI will never be an EVO. The big difference in suspension design makes that an EVO give a more go-kart feeling and an STI gives you a more smooth, comfortable ride.
Look at it this way. If you are a typical two car family. Get the EVo for yourself and treat your wife with a STI. Result: 2 happy campers.
At least you overthere already have the EVO 8 (we have to wait until end of this year to get one) and you get the 2.5 STI version (which we are never going to get on the European continent.
But then again you have been waiting for a long time..........
The STI and the EVO are, though designed for rally 2 complete different cars. However both are highly tuneable. With modest changes the output on a EVO6 can rise to 350 HP and on a EVO7 to around 380. ECUTEK works wonders on a STI.
That said a STI will never be an EVO. The big difference in suspension design makes that an EVO give a more go-kart feeling and an STI gives you a more smooth, comfortable ride.
Look at it this way. If you are a typical two car family. Get the EVo for yourself and treat your wife with a STI. Result: 2 happy campers.
Mar 18, 2003, 02:51 PM
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The Evo is a fantastic car - I took delivery last week
I don't want to throw up too much contoversy but it isn't as quick as all the (UK) or possibly the forthcoming US STi
It is however better by far in the handling and especially the braking department - All round a better car
The Impreza 22B will always be the ultimate though.......with the race tuned suspension it feels even faster through the bends than the Evo
I don't want to throw up too much contoversy but it isn't as quick as all the (UK) or possibly the forthcoming US STi
It is however better by far in the handling and especially the braking department - All round a better car
The Impreza 22B will always be the ultimate though.......with the race tuned suspension it feels even faster through the bends than the Evo
ht cus i own ONe
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