Truth Squad sounds kinda corney. You guys need a cooler name. BTW, i think all evom gurus should have modship/be members in this forum.

NOBS of evom - no BS club of evom

 

Actually, T-Squaders will police themselves because we have all taken different paths to get to where we are going.

For example, if I claim that AMS's stroker kit is by far the best way to go to add displacement, I would expect to be challenged by those that believe that using a 4g64 2.4 block is better, or that Buschur's is better, or another member that might argue that built motors suck. Then we can have a general discussion as to the pros and cons.

Also, one of the best examples of Truth Squad-type activity is Trinababe and Fourdoor's Gt35R turbo spoolup thread. That is what I am looking for. I just don't want biased vendors and fanboys coming in and ruining the discussion.

 

If that is what you want, you should nominate people instead of having them sign up.

 

Well, the "truth" is that we will have to police ourselves. The club is open to all except Vendors and heavily sponsored members. If a member is sponsored in some way that could cause even the "appearance" of bias, that member should disclose that in their post.

 

Smogrunner - If you are going to attempt this then do it with some class. Get rid of the The Truth Squad Beotchhh!! in your sig. Keep the link just take that Beotchhh out of there. If you guys claim this is going to be civil then act appropriately.

 

I'd like to join... if you want me. I don't post a lot, but when I do post, I make it count. I have a Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering. I ususally do at least one track-day(HPDE) a year(Mid-Ohio 2004 ; Putnam Park 2005). I've won my class title 3 years in a row in the local SCCA Solo II series(AS 2003 ; SM 2004, 2005). ....and I'm not loyal to any vendor/tuner.

 

Great idea, I'm all for it. Could I recommend 2 things: 1) All T-Squad members should have a similar avitar so everyone knows where the "truth" is coming from. 2) This Avitar should only be allowed on approved T-squad members. I am afraid you are going to get guys acting as if they were part of this group and fueling with even more BS. Then we're back to ground zero.

P.S. All newbs need a little slap in the face if they do something dumb like not use the search feature. Or Mods need to step in and shut down the redundant threads "COURTEOUSLY"

 

That was the only thread that I have all the posts. That is A Very Good Thread.

 

My only question is what qualifies all of you to be the ones to offer the truth? Just because you modified an Evo you are now qualified to give advice to the masses? Think about it. I am not saying that to put anyone down but there has to be some body of experience to support what is being told to newbies.

The problem is people are too lazy to search, especially newbies. But there really is no way to stop the useless starting of new posts. Don't you guys realize that if you ignore the lazy thread starter and not even post in there it will quickly fall off the first page and disappear from public view? If you post then the next guy feels the need to get involved and then the thing becomes the popular post of the day. That is not only frustrating for you guys but us too. Maybe we should have a rule that you can't post repost or do a search in any thread. Eventually no one will answer the guy and he will get the point. If he keeps bumping it I will delete it and tell him to search.

You guys really don't need a club, what we need is a non-vendor forum where no vendors are allowed to post. Evo Enigine/Turbo/Drivetrain is the closest thing to this except when Vendors start promoting themselves or their products in there. Most of them have their own forums and I don't understand why they venture out to only get into arguements with other vendors or members. They have a captive audience in thier own forum, of people who want to hear them preach.

What this forum really needs is a group of people willing to collaborate and create a thread about exhuast, which covers every aspect of exhuast design and theory and possibly even sound clips. We sticky it and make it a rule that you can not post the same topic as a sticky thread or something along those lines. If we did this for Exhaust, Intake, Clutch, BOV initially there would be hardly any new threads in a day. Anyone who is willing to get together and compile all the information about these subjects and put it to a post, I will be more then happy to Sticky it. Maybe what we need is a work in progress area that you guys can all collaborate the information and have a simple rule that if anyone goes in there to be OT or non-productive they get an immediate 3 day ban.

You guess really don't know how frustrating this forum is for the staff sometimes. We deal with the same newbie threads you do but we also deal with the people who jump in and insult the guy also. Some of these people don't realize what a great resource this forum is and simply think it is "Ask Jeeves?"

end rant<

 

yes, basically provide pros and cons of each path. that should be the "truth". i've seen too many "recommendations" in the line of "my friend installed ohlins on his type r and it's better than JIC". better how? what r the differences in dampening/spring rates? what is the alignment on that car, suspension settings? which car is it being compared to that had JICs? what works for one car may not be great for another. information like this will take time to write up and to absorb, but the results will be well worth it. what pisses me off sometimes is lack of patience from the n00bs. "yo man, i gotta upgrade my exhaust like yesterday! i need this **** so i can race my neighbor who has xxxxx v8 muscle and i hate v8s cause I4 is teh w!n!!!11....come on guys tell me what exhaust yo, son!"
does anyone remember that thread where a n00b wanted to upgrade his evo by friday to race his neighbor's GNX? ended up totaling his evo in the process. (could've been a fake/troll, but whatever)

oh yea, and after i just posted i saw timzcat's post, and yea that's exactly what i'm talking about. takes longer to compile the info, but it'll be the end-all-new-useless-threads deal.

 

I don't know about scientific or theoretical standpoints. How about just personal experience? I've ruffled a few feathers in the past by posting my personal experience. Maybe it's not a totally scientific approach but definitely empirical.......

 

That was hilarious!

If we can get a rule about auto deleting threads like "which exhaust" once the stickies are in place I think you all would be pretty happy.

 

I do think self-regulation is essential on an individual basis. I'm pretty good at biting my tongue in most instances (not always) but I do think a certain amount of tact and decorum is essential. Professional debate and banter is very acceptable in my book. I never try to belittle someone to the point that there's no way out for them. That only serves to close minds and doors.

English and spelling is a must. IMHO.

We should all try to contribute in an intelligent manner. IMHO.

If you don't know, don't post. IMHO.

Make sure you have a sound argument based on fact, not heresay. IMHO.

Google is a wonderful device for finding legitimate sources to check facts.

The complete and utter elimination of "me too" posts.

Good reading comprehension. Read a post thoroughly and make sure you understand what he/she is saying. If not, ask for clarification. To assume, well, you know how that old saying goes....It'd probably eliminate half the conflict on this board.

There are no stupid questions. Unless of course, they're lacking proper grammar and spelling I sure as hell don't want to blow up a $35K car because I was afraid to ask a question.

Don't be afraid to admit error. Even of opinion. We learn from mistakes and I'd rather learn from yours than make them myself. That way my wife won't kill me for blowing up the car. If it doesn't work, share the experience and move on to something better.

I dunno...maybe we can come up with a golden rule list to guide the Truth Squad and let others know our principals and what we'd expect of contributing members.

With all that said, I come from a very hands-on background including performance product development back in the days when Buick GN's still graced the cover of Turbo Magazine and there was a very small import scene. I jumped to rotaries back in 2000 and proceeded to become a contributing member of two rotary forums and hopefully, recogized as a contributing member. I really thought I knew it all. Here's the wrench. I met one of the top rotary engine builders in the world recently and in the course of a few hours, he completely shifted my world view on what was possible, what was realistic, and what really works. I came to the conclusion that no matter how much I, or anyone else read on the rotary forums, I'd never truly know anything like the way this guy knew rotaries. Even though most of us were knee deep in elbow grease under the hood of our beloved cars, we couldn't shine a candle on someone who tested every configuration for three decades on a professional level. He's sporadically active on the forums and does not advertise except by word of mouth. He'll share small kernels of knowledge to let others know he's the real deal (like negative split timing) and occasionally put out fires or disinformation that directly links to his business. I trust his opinion without question. He never tries to sell me anything I do not need and his resume is second to none. It doesn't hurt that he's building all of the engines for the ALMS entry next season either.

On the opposite side, there's also another source of information I highly trust on those forums who IS a paying vendor. His knowledge of everything "turbo" is amazing and he has the power to have custom Garrett GT-series turbos made exclusively for him by Garrett. He became a contributing vendor due to his love of the cars, his business and to head off disinformation at the pass. His intentions have been almost 100% honest and truthful since the beginning and tries to meet customer/forum demand for products. But only if it works! He does not post on this forum afik although he has some really amazing creations, even for the Evo. I know he's helped create a GT35RS which is apparently much better than a "plain" 35R with more top end. Not sure if it'd be applicable to the 4G.

Perhaps "vendors" can't be part of the Truth Squad per se, but surely at some point we must give homage to their inherently greater knowledge. We're all armchair philosophers to a certain degree unlike business owners who's lifeline depends on producing good products and/or products that sell. We have to find those vendors and perhaps allow some sort of "back door" contribution by them.

I will say this; the "mood" of the RX7 forums and the Evo forums in relation to vendor/member relationships is quite different. It may be the number of highly educated engineers and professionals who own RX7's. I'm not really sure what creates the different perception. But my first impression of EvoM upon arrival was that it had been "infiltrated" specifically by vendors. Everything read more as an ad than actual discovery, experiment, and dissemination of information. Then again, it's a cut-throat business with a finite (but growing) pool of customers. It's capitalism at it's best and worst. As I've become more involved, that initial perception has blurred somewhat but it's still there. And even though vendors want customer loyalty, sharing information makes it public and potentially nullifies any advantage vendor A has over vendor B. Definitely a conundrum.

I really think this is a great idea to hold forum members to a higher standard. I also think the contributing vendors on this forum should hold themselves to a higher standard. If someone posts disinformation, something that isn't 100% correct or out of context, even if positive about a vendor's product, the vendor should speak up. The forum as a whole would benefit.

Keep the discussion going! If nothing else comes of this, perhaps the forum moderators will realize there's been a general shift in attitude of the forum populace and adjust accordingly.

 

Setting up collaboration to provide info on some of the most asked questions is a good idea. I even thought about asking for volunteers to help create a beginner’s guide to modifying their evo's or lancer's in our article system so when new people sign up, the article would be sent to them to read.

The guide should just give the technical aspects of what to do and leave it to the customer to choose the best product to achieve their horsepower goal.

 

This is a very good question.... Who certifies the "authorities"? One of the biggest problems I see with the debate & advise so freely given is that it's non-contextual. Until there is a really good way to put things into context there is very little that will be truly useful to the newbies. This is of course assuming that nobody has any axes to grind, ever ..............


I don't agree completely with the above. The search feature is not user friendly. There is no way to find truly relevant topics to one's questions. It's utterly frustrating to sift through thousands of posts where the word "BOV" or "exhaust" or whatever appears..... Also, as annoying as these repetitive posts are, they make the bulk of the traffic in the forum. If everyone stopped writing anything that's been discussed or posted about in the past, they might as well shut the forum down as they'll be nothing but long periods of inactivity.........