My Evo to STi Story (Long)
![[pK]Lightning's Avatar](https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/customavatars/avatar25884_1.gif){kind=avatar}
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
My Evo to STi Story (Long)
Alright, so here's the full story of how an STi replaced my once beloved Evo in my garage. A few things to keep in mind before reading this are: 1. I co-own CoRacing.com the largest and fastest growing auto enthusiast internet community in Colorado. 2. I'd owned the Evo for 14 months, and a GSX for three years prior to that. In short, I know the 4g63 quite well.
That being said, I know it's long, but I hope it's well worth the read.
On October 7th 2005 my engine started making a sporadic ticking noise. It sounded like lifter tick, but would only happen with the car warm, and would only happen at partial throttle. Eventually it worsened to effect the overall performance of my car. Even under full boost the vehicle would bog and hesitate badly. After troubleshooting the issue I was unable to determine the source of the ticking. I placed a call to Phil Long Mitsubishi in Colorado Springs, and asked for my car to be looked at under warranty. The representitive informed me that if *ANY* after-market parts were on the car, the vehicle would be considered "out of warranty" After I mentioned that the Magnuson Moss act would certainly argue otherwise, the rep revised her story and informed me that certain PORTIONS of my vehicle warranty may be void. Reluctantly, with 23150 miles on the car, I took it to Phil Long Mitsu's service dept. I dropped off the Evo on October 11th. I told them it was due for an oil change and all I'd done so far to try and locate the issue. They did not provide me with a loaner vehicle at this time.
First they tried to tell me that because the blow-by was first dumping into an oil catch can that I had installed, then into the intake (instead of directly into the intake) the ECU had a delay in the air it should have been receiving from this pressurized source. I instructed the technician that the blow-by was in fact NOT a pressurized source, and that the issue had to be as a result of something else, especially considering the ticking noise. I instructed the tech on how to re-create the issue.
Next they told me that the intake & exhaust (K&N Typhoon & Greddy EVO) were causing the loss of power, but they would continue to troubleshoot the source of the ticking. Eventually their next conclusion was that the spark plugs may be causing the issue. Apparently copper plugs will not work in Evolution engines, only OEM Iridium plugs will function. I argued the point but the technician refused to troubleshoot the issue any further until the plugs were replaced with Iridium. After I complied with this request the issue (big shocker) persisted.
After two weeks of arguing, calls to Mitsu corporate, a district rep who refused to take my calls, and several other dead-ends -- the service manager, Chris Mata, informed me that Phil Long would provide me with a rental vehicle while they were working on my car. The fun continued.
On October 24th, Mitsu contacted me for the first time without my having contacted them in an effort to check the status of my vehicle. They informed me that they had come to the conclusion that I was not changing my oil every 3000 miles, and I wasn't using synthetic oil. The result of this was that 14 out of the 16 lifters were completely clogged. I assured them that I was in fact changing my oil every 3000 miles with full synthetic 5W30 Mobil 1. They asked for the service receipts for the vehicle. Problem here is that I usually just pick up my oil when I am shopping at Wal Mart, and I change my oil when I get the chance. I just keep a log of the mileage of my vehicle when I change the oil, and told them I'd be happy to provide that, but I wasn't sure I would be able to provide the reciepts for the oil/filter. I called Wal Mart, but they said they couldn't help me re-print all the receipts for all my purchases for the last year, only 5, and they couldn't search by item (i.e. they couldn't search for each time I purchased the oil in the past year.) Go figure. I told Mitsu that oil receipts were a no-go, and they said they were going to test my oil. I faxed them my oil change log showing my oil changes every 3000 miles and my use of Mobil1 5W30, and a FRAM filter at each change.
Mitsu didn't receive the oil test results until the first week in November. The service manager said it showed that I was using a 20 weight oil and adding something to it that made the oil heavy in copper and magnesium. I told him that the test must be inaccurate, and that I could bring in an empty 5qt jug, and 11qts of used Mobil1 5W30 synthetic motor oil. He said I could have "just picked that up anywhere." He added that using FRAM filters may also void the warranty. He said only the use of OEM filters is acceptable. I called the general manager of Phil Long Mitsubishi, and I informed him that something was not right, and I had completely lost my patience. He assured me he'd push to have the issue fixed given my status in the local car community. We fought for several weeks. Finally the service manager said they'd work out a deal with me to fix the car.
Saturday, December 4th, A FULL MONTH LATER I went to pick up my car. I paid $200 (their price for new lifters) & on the way out to drive the car home I noticed that someone had hit my back bumper and caused some minor cracks in the paint. A service consultant by the name of Tim witnessed the damage. he informed me that the issue would be resolved, and I needed to drop the car back off the following Monday. Unfortunately, also by the following Monday, the ticking and loss of power was back in full force. A week later I called to check the status of my vehicle. Tim informed me that it would be ready to pick up the following Tuesday. When I inquired about the ticking noise, Tim told me that I wasn't changing the oil in my car every 3000 miles and that was causing the ticking noise. I told him that this was the second time someone from Mitsubishi had called me a liar, and it would be the last. I placed another call to the general manager of Phil Long Mitsu.
Mark Weida, the GM has been a great man throughout this situation. I want to make it perfectly clear that he made every effort to assist me in my issue, but since Mitsu corporate was holding all the cards, there wasn't much he could do. He did, however, refrain from pulling any punches. Eventually Chris Mata was fired.
One week after the new Mitsu service manager was hired he was able to get results for me. First he did an oil pressure test on my vehicle. The pressure test came back perfectly normal. Then he dropped the oil pan and was able to find flakes of copper. Further investigation revealed thrust bearing 2 and 4 ground completely down.
Crankwalk.
By this time I had found some very valuable ammunition. Using my oil change log I was able to decipher the approximate time-frame of each of my oil changes. Then, searching bank statements for any Wal Mart transaction over around $20 for the entire previous year, I was able to locate and ear-mark transactions that were MOST LIKELY the ones where an oil purchase would have taken place. A visit to Wal-Mart only yielded 2 reciept copies with oil purchases. Luckily they were my last 2 oil changes. Before they had the chance to give me the textbook "We'll have to see what the district rep says" I knew I finally had them by the *****.
Armed with this info I made my way down to Mitsu one sunny afternoon. During his initial meeting with the new service manager, I ambushed the district rep who had previously refused to even speak with me on the phone. I was able to convince him that Phil Long Mitsubishi already had a horrible record on a web site I co-owned, and that a growing population of potential customers in the Colorado Springs area were becoming aware of something. Although Mitsubishi offers a warranty with their new vehicles, they really DON'T. I told Mr. James Baird that he really didn't need more bad news to get across to even more potential customers. He decided to replace the short-block in my evolution.
I left town for x-mas.
On January 4th I picked up my vehicle with a new short-block. The valve cover paint was scratched in several places, bolts were missing, and a check-valve was broken. Vacuum lines were loose, and various parts which must have been on a different Evolution were in place on mine.
72 hours later I was driving an STi. I stripped all the performance parts off the Evo and turned it in on Tuesday January 10th.
That being said, I know it's long, but I hope it's well worth the read.
On October 7th 2005 my engine started making a sporadic ticking noise. It sounded like lifter tick, but would only happen with the car warm, and would only happen at partial throttle. Eventually it worsened to effect the overall performance of my car. Even under full boost the vehicle would bog and hesitate badly. After troubleshooting the issue I was unable to determine the source of the ticking. I placed a call to Phil Long Mitsubishi in Colorado Springs, and asked for my car to be looked at under warranty. The representitive informed me that if *ANY* after-market parts were on the car, the vehicle would be considered "out of warranty" After I mentioned that the Magnuson Moss act would certainly argue otherwise, the rep revised her story and informed me that certain PORTIONS of my vehicle warranty may be void. Reluctantly, with 23150 miles on the car, I took it to Phil Long Mitsu's service dept. I dropped off the Evo on October 11th. I told them it was due for an oil change and all I'd done so far to try and locate the issue. They did not provide me with a loaner vehicle at this time.
First they tried to tell me that because the blow-by was first dumping into an oil catch can that I had installed, then into the intake (instead of directly into the intake) the ECU had a delay in the air it should have been receiving from this pressurized source. I instructed the technician that the blow-by was in fact NOT a pressurized source, and that the issue had to be as a result of something else, especially considering the ticking noise. I instructed the tech on how to re-create the issue.
Next they told me that the intake & exhaust (K&N Typhoon & Greddy EVO) were causing the loss of power, but they would continue to troubleshoot the source of the ticking. Eventually their next conclusion was that the spark plugs may be causing the issue. Apparently copper plugs will not work in Evolution engines, only OEM Iridium plugs will function. I argued the point but the technician refused to troubleshoot the issue any further until the plugs were replaced with Iridium. After I complied with this request the issue (big shocker) persisted.
After two weeks of arguing, calls to Mitsu corporate, a district rep who refused to take my calls, and several other dead-ends -- the service manager, Chris Mata, informed me that Phil Long would provide me with a rental vehicle while they were working on my car. The fun continued.
On October 24th, Mitsu contacted me for the first time without my having contacted them in an effort to check the status of my vehicle. They informed me that they had come to the conclusion that I was not changing my oil every 3000 miles, and I wasn't using synthetic oil. The result of this was that 14 out of the 16 lifters were completely clogged. I assured them that I was in fact changing my oil every 3000 miles with full synthetic 5W30 Mobil 1. They asked for the service receipts for the vehicle. Problem here is that I usually just pick up my oil when I am shopping at Wal Mart, and I change my oil when I get the chance. I just keep a log of the mileage of my vehicle when I change the oil, and told them I'd be happy to provide that, but I wasn't sure I would be able to provide the reciepts for the oil/filter. I called Wal Mart, but they said they couldn't help me re-print all the receipts for all my purchases for the last year, only 5, and they couldn't search by item (i.e. they couldn't search for each time I purchased the oil in the past year.) Go figure. I told Mitsu that oil receipts were a no-go, and they said they were going to test my oil. I faxed them my oil change log showing my oil changes every 3000 miles and my use of Mobil1 5W30, and a FRAM filter at each change.
Mitsu didn't receive the oil test results until the first week in November. The service manager said it showed that I was using a 20 weight oil and adding something to it that made the oil heavy in copper and magnesium. I told him that the test must be inaccurate, and that I could bring in an empty 5qt jug, and 11qts of used Mobil1 5W30 synthetic motor oil. He said I could have "just picked that up anywhere." He added that using FRAM filters may also void the warranty. He said only the use of OEM filters is acceptable. I called the general manager of Phil Long Mitsubishi, and I informed him that something was not right, and I had completely lost my patience. He assured me he'd push to have the issue fixed given my status in the local car community. We fought for several weeks. Finally the service manager said they'd work out a deal with me to fix the car.
Saturday, December 4th, A FULL MONTH LATER I went to pick up my car. I paid $200 (their price for new lifters) & on the way out to drive the car home I noticed that someone had hit my back bumper and caused some minor cracks in the paint. A service consultant by the name of Tim witnessed the damage. he informed me that the issue would be resolved, and I needed to drop the car back off the following Monday. Unfortunately, also by the following Monday, the ticking and loss of power was back in full force. A week later I called to check the status of my vehicle. Tim informed me that it would be ready to pick up the following Tuesday. When I inquired about the ticking noise, Tim told me that I wasn't changing the oil in my car every 3000 miles and that was causing the ticking noise. I told him that this was the second time someone from Mitsubishi had called me a liar, and it would be the last. I placed another call to the general manager of Phil Long Mitsu.
Mark Weida, the GM has been a great man throughout this situation. I want to make it perfectly clear that he made every effort to assist me in my issue, but since Mitsu corporate was holding all the cards, there wasn't much he could do. He did, however, refrain from pulling any punches. Eventually Chris Mata was fired.
One week after the new Mitsu service manager was hired he was able to get results for me. First he did an oil pressure test on my vehicle. The pressure test came back perfectly normal. Then he dropped the oil pan and was able to find flakes of copper. Further investigation revealed thrust bearing 2 and 4 ground completely down.
Crankwalk.
By this time I had found some very valuable ammunition. Using my oil change log I was able to decipher the approximate time-frame of each of my oil changes. Then, searching bank statements for any Wal Mart transaction over around $20 for the entire previous year, I was able to locate and ear-mark transactions that were MOST LIKELY the ones where an oil purchase would have taken place. A visit to Wal-Mart only yielded 2 reciept copies with oil purchases. Luckily they were my last 2 oil changes. Before they had the chance to give me the textbook "We'll have to see what the district rep says" I knew I finally had them by the *****.
Armed with this info I made my way down to Mitsu one sunny afternoon. During his initial meeting with the new service manager, I ambushed the district rep who had previously refused to even speak with me on the phone. I was able to convince him that Phil Long Mitsubishi already had a horrible record on a web site I co-owned, and that a growing population of potential customers in the Colorado Springs area were becoming aware of something. Although Mitsubishi offers a warranty with their new vehicles, they really DON'T. I told Mr. James Baird that he really didn't need more bad news to get across to even more potential customers. He decided to replace the short-block in my evolution.
I left town for x-mas.
On January 4th I picked up my vehicle with a new short-block. The valve cover paint was scratched in several places, bolts were missing, and a check-valve was broken. Vacuum lines were loose, and various parts which must have been on a different Evolution were in place on mine.
72 hours later I was driving an STi. I stripped all the performance parts off the Evo and turned it in on Tuesday January 10th.
It always terrible to lose another Evo owner because of Mitsubishi's poor customer service. They peddled the car in full force in the movie 2F2F then turned their backs on all of the Evo owners. Its just act of fate that such a well-received car has to be manufactured by one of the poorest rep car maker in the world.
Sorry to have read all that. It just makes me less enthused to change anything on the evo.
Good luck with your STI. It is a great car and probably have less problems with your service guys, since subaru offers performance upgrades for their cars directly.
Good luck with your STI. It is a great car and probably have less problems with your service guys, since subaru offers performance upgrades for their cars directly.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Oaktown
Wow, that sucks. I amazes me how sh**ty Mitsu seems to be in terms dealing with warranty work. If you're not going to build your STi, I think you'll be pretty happy with it. I drive the wife's from time to time & it is a fun car. Besides......this forum is about 1000x better than the subie forums. Good luck with it, what color did you get?
Originally Posted by josep1001
I thought we were to use fullsyn 10w- 30?
Full synthetic 10w-30 when weather doesn't drop below zero, but if it gets colder then that in the manual it suggest that 5w30 be used.
The guy lives in Colorado and if he near the moutains, I am sure it gets pretty cold up there. With the wind chills and all.
Trending Topics
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Meade, Maryland
EVO or STi?
You see..... thats the big problem for me to make my decision between the 06 STI or EVO IX. You can make biiiiiiiiiiiiiggg power with the EVO, but subaru's reliability with their warranties pull me in that direction. My girlfriend has an 04 STI and I love the power that it brings just being stock, but it's sooooo hard to make more power. Anything above 350 whp on the STI and you need very deep pockets. When you purchase an EVO you have to basically hope and pray that you got one of the "better made" ones from the factory and not a lemon...
Originally Posted by awdevoVIII
You see..... thats the big problem for me to make my decision between the 06 STI or EVO IX. You can make biiiiiiiiiiiiiggg power with the EVO, but subaru's reliability with their warranties pull me in that direction. My girlfriend has an 04 STI and I love the power that it brings just being stock, but it's sooooo hard to make more power. Anything above 350 whp on the STI and you need very deep pockets. When you purchase an EVO you have to basically hope and pray that you got one of the "better made" ones from the factory and not a lemon...
