And some money for more mods I was looking forward to meeting you but never got the chance. I had a great time and am looking forward to the WW event every year.

 

thief. im telling smoked on u.

"SMOKED!"

yea ur car is pretty nice for a LANCER.
it sucks that ur reg. lancer got more attention than my MR which was right next to yours. well maybe im a little jealous.

 

Triple post.

 

Both are awesome cars!! can't take that away from either car.

 

Double post..............

 

wow u should be a politician.

 

ahhhhhhhh no.

 

Since we are a big happy family here, you can post up what you want to see change for the next event, (if anything).


http://www.wingedwarrior.net/forum2/...pic.php?t=3188

 

I do think the Big car show should have wild and mild classes. Hard to compete against guys that have had cars out fot 5-6 years. And most of all you need a wet T-shirt contest and bikini contest. I meen come on what says "charity" more then some hot girls running around half naked J/J. NOT! Really tho it was pretty frickn sweet and ran very smooth.

 

IhuntV8's, love the new signature! haha

We will take your car out there next year too. Have to get with Kevin and see if you can drive two cars at the same event. If not, maybe I'll have to give it a shot......sure would be a shame for me to ruin a great car's potential though.

 

David,

Thanks for your response. It helped me understand where you are coming from. I'll admit I was ticked off by a couple of your earlier comments toward me, and I think that led to a couple cheap jabs at you and your car. My responses to your responses are in blue:


(David's responses marked by **):

. . . .Probably has more dyno pulls and tuning hours than any other EVO in the country

**Thank GOD it has that many dyno pulls on it. You should be grateful. If it didn't the EVO Green would be an unheard of barely used turbo as would another 50 parts that I have spent countless hours on for the benefit of everyone. Do you honestly think the 100's of hours of dyno pulls on my personal car were used to tune it for this one race?! The 100's of hours of dyno pulls that are the car I surely wish were not. I would have prefered to be able to just buy the parts that were developed like you and anyone else can do, put the car on the dyno for 1-2 hours like anyone else's and call it finished. My hours on the dyno benefit customers more than they do me beating the living sh it out of my own car.

Very true. I am grateful, as I am sure most of the EVO community is that you do so much hands on testing of various parts, combinations, and setups. I think that has led to your RS being the "Alpha" EVO, one that all other evos are compared to with regards to power production. No other evo has made as much power as your RS with the 20G-9. No other EVO has gone quicker in the 1/4 on a 20G-9 or EVO Green than your RS. No other EVO has made more power on a GT35 series turbo than your RS (if you put it on a Dynojet I bet it would top 700whp).

Uses a brand new turbo system (have any been installed in customer cars yet?)

**Kind of goes back to the development work I do as part of the business. There are 25 compressor wheels being machined now. Had I not taken countless hours helping test this turbo and get data from it then it may never be available. Just like the EVO Green you are running, someone has to test it first, then you guys get it. If this event had been run in another month then we could see them on customer cars.

Most testing like this is done on what I consider "shop cars". Most regular guys don't just call up FP or Precision or Garrett or whoever and have them build a new turbo to test out. Whose name is on the car title or how often you drive it is irrelevant in my opinion. But opinions are like you know what - every one has one. Some just stink more than others BTW, I consider Martin from AMS's personal EVO a shop car also.

Driven by a hired driver rather than the owner

**Hired driver? Hired would mean I paid him. Trent is a friend of mine and our welder at the shop. He has autocrossed maybe 4 times in his entire lifetime. Mark Daddio or Jon K., would be guys worthy of hiring for an autocross competition and since they aren't friends/employees I'd consider them to be hired drivers. I just suck and putting me in the car to compete would be a waste of a 5 hour drive to the track! haha

Sorry, "hired" was a poor choice of words. He is an employee of your shop, though. He may not be paid specifially for this event, but he is paid by you. By hired I meant someone other than the owner driving in hopes of a better performance. I know it's not against the rules, but in my opinion the owner of the car should have to drive it. I don't think this event is just a test of which car is better, I think it is a test of both car and driver. If it were, then they would have one driver drive all the cars to see which car performs the best with no driver variable, kind of like that event they had out in California (can't remember the name of it, American Togue or something). It is supposed to be a street car shootout so consider this - if you were driving your EVO and came up to a stoplight next to a Viper that was revving on you, would you tell him to hold on while you get someone to drive your car, or would you do your best and most likely beat him easily? That's just another opinion.

As a tuner/vendor I feel you should be supporting your customers . . .

**I do support our customers. IF anyone should know that it should be YOU. I spent countless hours trying to make you happy with your old car and MANY of those hours, as you know, I charged nothing for. I wanted nothing more than for you to be happy with your old car and run it and win some major races. I spent time on Trevor's car and did support him. As a matter of fact had it not been for the car show he would have beaten us. I was SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED when we got 1st overall because as I had it figured HE won the event. We were not trying to "beat" our own customers, we were racing and having fun. What is the rule, if any of our customers are at the track we aren't allowed to race there too?

I appreciate all the work you put into the Silver Bullet. It was a fast car and I miss the visceral, sensory excitement of driving it. I DID win some major races with it. 3 Regional championships, Divisional championship, Regional PAX championship (vs. many current and former multi-time National Champions!). I also was shocked when they anounced me for 3rd place. All my friends that were there know it - I had no expectation whatsoever of even being in the top 5.

You spent enough time looking over my car that I thought you would notice the stock boost lines and solenoid. . . .

**Come on, if you are going to accuse me of that then you know I am smart enough to know the boost can be turned up very high in the reflash and even if they are not with the parts you have they go up anyway. The full exhaust, 02 housing and Green with an adjustable actuator. If you are seriously trying to convince us all that your car has 19 psi up to 4500 rpm and then falls to 16 psi from there.............you must thing we are fools.

I have never lied to you. I have no reason to lie now. The stock boost lines and solenoid thing are untouched - includes all stock restrictor pills. The boost in the ECU is untouched. The Green has a stock wastegate with the actuator set wherever it was when it came from FP. Boost may have gone up a bit by adding a turbo back and getting rid of alot of back pressure. It usually does. Mods like that may change it a bit, but I have done nothing to directly change boost pressure. I think the 9's run around 21psi stock. I don't know what they fall to. You should be proud that your Green can put down those kind of times. 12.4 @ 110 was my best. On a pump gas email reflash. Same map I drove the car on all the way to Indy on 93 octane. . .

By the way, I do find it very interesting that you don’t think that a 20G-LT/EvoGreen can go 12.4 on stock boost. Really, I thought you had more confidence in it than that. So, what do you think its limits are at stock boost levels??

**On pump gas I think 12.4 is pushing it and claiming to do it with 19 psi peak fallilng to 16 psi...............

Once again I don't know any numbers. I don't even have a readable boost gauge. No boost control harware or software were touched.

Very true. I don't have alot of time. I work 50-60 hours a week and am out of town racing every weekend I have off. I don't have the luxury of trying out new parts on my dyno every day. This goes back to the whole Tuner Shop car vs. Regular Joe car debate.

**There are two opinions on your idea of trying things out on the dyno everyday...........try to look at mine and the benefits it has provided to you and everyone else with an EVO.

It has absolutely benefitted me. No question. I appreciate that.

I'm sure Trevor can handle his own alignments. I have my local Sears Auto or my local Mitsu dealership do mine.

**I don't think that he can although I may be mistaken. Someone else could though. Point is his car nor mine was set up to try and autocross with. 1.5 degrees neg in the front with 1/16" toe in, rear 0 toe and 0 camber. Hardly an autocross alignment, as you know.

By "handle his own" I meant to have it done at any shop where he lives. All you have to do is tell them the specs to set it to. I've never done my own, I just pay a shop to do it and look at the pretty printout they give me to be sure it is where I want it.

Please do bring the Magnum out. How much dust is on it now? I doubt we'll ever see it at any event that the AMS TA car is at. . .

**Would love to do that. Why would you not see it at an event AMS is at? That must be a jab of some sort......We've competed at 2 events with them. Am I going to haul the car all over the country to run it, hell no, I don't have the time, ambition or desire. BTW, it's pretty dusty, when you get time stop out and wash it for me, you seem to be good at that after seeing your show placement

Sorry for the jab. Just haven't seen it out much, and I think some folks think that it's because the AMS car is so dominant. Get rid of the 20G and slap on your new 35 and bring it out and have Robert whoop some a$$ on the track. The whole EVO community would love to see it compete more. I'll come wash AND wax it if you let me take her for a spin!

Why don't you drive your own damn car like the rest of us??? Another reason your car is a shop car. Heck, I'll get Mark Daddio to drive mine in the autocross and Curt Brown to drive it in the drags

**Why? Because I SUCK. Some guys can drive, I seem to have become handicapped over the last few years, so I don't bother. I can tune, I can build, I can weld, I can test blah blah blah. My shortcoming is driving. Since you are bringing up AMS and their drivers constantly, remember last year when AMS entered their Time Attack car in the same class as we all ran in this year, they had Jon K., in it driving. Why is it you weren't being such a cry baby then?

Trust me, I did have issues with AMS's TA car being at last year's event. Stripped, gutted, on tires that aren't even sold in the US (still are not available). I made my feelings heard to the WW folks and that is probably why they tried to have a shop car class this time around. Dude, you don't suck. You could hop in my my car and take down the 1/4 faster than I ever can. I could probably get in your car and turn a faster AX lap than you. It is just about experience. You keep doing those track days and your confidence will come back. As far as my driving, I'm definitely no Mark Daddio or Curt Brown. Heck, CB may have pushed my car into the 11's! I feel it is all about doing your best and seeing where you stack up when the smoke clears. For me, driving the car is the fun part, not building it or watching it go down the track. May be that I'm still young (not THAT young) but I love the adrenaline rush of banging through the gears and smelling the tire smoke and hearing the tires beg for mercy.

You would need alot more than that. Actually your car was 8th. Mine was 6th. An AMS built car was 7th. The top 5 were all domestic cars. . . .

**Dude, seriously. The judges were 3 girls who I doubt knew anything at all about cars. I gaurantee you they have no idea what tire fits under an EVO, how to make one fit or anything about a wide body kit. The hot trophy girl is the one that judged your car from what I saw. Do you really think the car show judges chose the cars based on anything other than what shined or stood out? The number one car in the show was a new Z06, that should tell you something. Not everything on your car was chosen for function. An intercooler is suppose to COOL, you chose yours for weight only....that's what you told me anyway. Choosing an intercooler because it is light is like choosing a condom because it is black. Don't flatter yourself into thinking your placing was good in the show for anything other than "bling". It was no judged by car guys, it was judged by three women who either volunteered or were asked to do the job.

I didn't know who the judges were. In that case, then I understand the placings. Good ol' American girls are always going to get moist over a Vette or Camaro before an EVO. How about next year we have 3 judges - one car nut with a Domestic background, one car nut with an Import background, and one cute model? (We could get Paul Walker, Vin Diesel, and some hottie off the street) In that case your car and the black AMS built EVO would be in the top 2.

OK, I admit it, I chose the ARC intercooler for more than weight. The stocker weighs the least out of all of them, so if weight were the only consideration I would have stuck with that. I also chose the ARC unit because I thought it would flow better. Guess I don't really care too much about cooling because it will be iced down between each 60-second autocross run. (plus it looks killer with the Voltex bumper )

Maybe if you had the same "bling" your 600+hp car would have beat my 300hp car in the autocross??

**Actually, if someone with some autocross experience would have driven my car I am fairly certain that the .6 tenths of a second you beat Trent by would have never happened. You have spent your "lifetime" autocrossing, that is your passion and you set out to build the "ultimate autocross" car, you even started your own thread about doing it. Trent has autocrossed, as I said, 3-4 times in his lifetime and never in my car before. Don't pat yourself on the back too much for the .6 you beat an unexperienced driver by in a car he never drove before. Don't get me wrong either, Trent did a great job. YOU DID A GREAT JOB TOO and you can drive for sure. I am not taking anyting away from you. You just seem to be dead set on making my car, me and Trent look like dumb asses and it isn't working out very well for me.

First off, I am in no way trying to make you, Trent, or your car look bad. I think this whole thing stems from our different opinions on what is a Shop Car. Trent did an amazing job. Your car is an absolute BEAST! I doubt I could even control that kind of power, because my silver EVO is the fastest car I've ever driven. I am not patting myself on the back for beating Trent in the AX. What I am patting myself on the back for is taking a car that 48 hours before the event was in pieces on a lift at the dealership, and 24 hours before the event didn't even run, and putting it all together and pulling off a respectable finish. I and all my friends expected your car to finish 1st. None of us expected my car to even make it to the event. That is what I am proud about. We can play the "what if" game and bench race all we want, but all it boils down to is you won. You guys did awesome. I look forward to the next event to see what my car is capable of with a little development. I know all the competition will be doing the same.

As for the autocross. 6 tenths are a lifetime in autocross. National Championships are decided by hundredths, trophy spots by a couple tenths. I have raced autocross for only 2 years. I had never even driven a high performance car before I bought the EVO in August, 2004. I looked at Corvettes, M3's, and Vipers. I bought the EVO solely because it was quick, got good gas mileage, and could be driven in the winter. After I bought it, the owner of the dealership invited me out to something called an autocross. I finished last but was hooked. I have not been doing this for my "lifetime", but you have been building and driving fast cars for a LONG time. I think you have the advantage here, and that showed by your 1st place overall finish.

David, you are a great tuner and build some awesome cars. That's why I came to you a year ago. Unfortunately after spending alot of time and money my car did not meet the goals I had set for it, so I've decided to try a different path. I know from my dealings with you that you probably will take that personally, but I hope not.

**Actually, normally I would be pissed. You can ask Trevor, Jarrod and Trent what I said about you and your new project if you like. Actually I will tell you now. I told them that it SUCKED that you chose to go with the parts that you did. I also said that I guess I can't blame you that you did as I never made your old car what you wanted it to be and you spent quite a bit of money with us and I spent a lot of time trying. I also said that obviously something else was wrong with the old car that wouldn't allow the power level you were looking for. Whether it was the head, engine or what, I don't know and we never will since you gave up on it. I can say with 100% confidence though, had you brought the old car you would have placed higher in the drags and autocross. So we are clear, I am not pissed at you. I am disapointed though that you didn't chose us to help with the new build but understand your decisions. I do feel the car will never be as good as it could have been with the parts you have chosen though.

Thanks for the information and honesty. I know 99% that the problem with the old car was a bad set of cams. I will know 100% when I have them out of the car and tested. I agree that I would have done better with the silver car at this event because I was used to driving it, it had 2 years of development, it had alot more power (on race gas tune), but it is gone now. When this new car is finished it will be faster (both in drags and AX) than the old car and will have none of the issues we were trying to fix. Part of that is because the E9 has more potential than the E8, and another part of that is because it will not have the problems caused by the bad set of Revolvers. If I had originally chosen a different set of cams than the Revolvers, I would probably still be in the silver car. Revolvers themselves can be great, as shown by Trevor's car, but the particular set in my car were messed up. How else can we explain 340ft# @ 3000 rpms (the highest I've ever seen on a 2.0 EVO) but no breathing on the top end. It HAD to be the cams.

You know my goal for the car - a National autocross championship. I had the choice to try to piece it together and figure out what it takes on my own or to go with the guy who has taken an EVO to the championship 2 years in a row. It was a hard choice, but I hope you can appreciate why I made the choice I did. Likewise, if I ever need to build an EVO to run 9's and be a reliable daily driver, I'm not going to choose a shop that has never done it, I'm going to go to Buschur Racing!

Only time will tell if my chosen combination of parts meets my goals. If it does, I will name it the EVOlutionary Showcase Stage SM-N, for Street Modified National. I can also customize a stage SM-R and SM-D, for those who only plan on competing on the Regional or Divisional level.

If this car ends up sucking *****, then I'll sell it, have a couple kids and buy a minivan.


EVOlutionary

 

I was going to bring my car but that monday before WW3 at the track rental the driver side rear axle decided to disagree on making that trip. I probably would have gotten the award for fastest and highest horsepower show car.

I would have liked to seen those "twins" pose on the car.

 

Dude that sucks! Do you have the Advans on the car yet? Can't wait to see it in person with the new additions!

EVOlutionary

 

Yeah they are on. Running 245/40/18 BFG drag radials on all 4 corners.

Here is a link to a thread I made: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=266112

 

WOW!! I would have rubbed my hairy bewbies over that!! Looks AWESOME!