An Inconvenient Truth… About JDM - aka "The Death of Innovation"
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I'm a proud American, proud of American products. I believe its in the American way, that if there's a design out there that is good, you should either find a way to uniquely enhance it and make it on your own, or be a man and step into the JDM ring and challenge them at their own game. We're bold, we're proud, and at one time, there were no SpoComs or JDM hi-perf parts. At one time, we dominated the go fast market. Victor Edelbrock would be flamin pissed if some Chinese company came in and started buying his manifolds just so some knock off discount brand could come and buy one of his quality products so they could make cheap *** cast replica that blew the brackets off at the first shot of spray. American's should be ashamed at companies that aren't as original as their own heritage. The American way has always been different and better than other countries.
Its funny how we all b!^@#ed when other countries came in and started replicating our manufacturing processes and refining our production and doing it cheaper. And the American response to a JDM challenge towards quality products has been to turn around and betray all their stated morals in american pride in the american way and do the same things their competition did by simply letting someone else do the heavy work in development and picking up at their final design. That is not what I call rising above and not stooping to the competitions level, its purely unamerican. Third world countries do that ****. To think that there are American companies that operate as ethicless, careless, replicators sickens me. It hurts my pride of being a part of the American tuning scene. I guess it is true, american innovation is dying if not already dead. The worst part is, that our lack of pride in ourselves and our work has completely died, and now we're taking down an entire industry just because of it.
To every American knock off buyer, wise up. If you keep supporting knock offs, there will eventually be nothing left for you to even think is cool enough to be knocked off. You'll be left with what sadly has been America's best attempt at being innovators (the american made crap that people don't buy because its simply ugly crap). Instead, if you still want to support these knock off companies, and you think that doing so will continue to support our industry, then demand that Seibon be a real competitor. Demand JDM quality from American companies. See what they say. If they are half as much of an enthusiast as you are or claim to be, then they'll respond with a competitive initiative of some sort. But this price war has to end. It really is not fair to American consumers. I know I'm personally tired that for the past 8 years, I've been handed piles of bulls#!t with a petunia sticking out of it and being told its the same bushel of roses I've always gotten.
Its funny how we all b!^@#ed when other countries came in and started replicating our manufacturing processes and refining our production and doing it cheaper. And the American response to a JDM challenge towards quality products has been to turn around and betray all their stated morals in american pride in the american way and do the same things their competition did by simply letting someone else do the heavy work in development and picking up at their final design. That is not what I call rising above and not stooping to the competitions level, its purely unamerican. Third world countries do that ****. To think that there are American companies that operate as ethicless, careless, replicators sickens me. It hurts my pride of being a part of the American tuning scene. I guess it is true, american innovation is dying if not already dead. The worst part is, that our lack of pride in ourselves and our work has completely died, and now we're taking down an entire industry just because of it.
To every American knock off buyer, wise up. If you keep supporting knock offs, there will eventually be nothing left for you to even think is cool enough to be knocked off. You'll be left with what sadly has been America's best attempt at being innovators (the american made crap that people don't buy because its simply ugly crap). Instead, if you still want to support these knock off companies, and you think that doing so will continue to support our industry, then demand that Seibon be a real competitor. Demand JDM quality from American companies. See what they say. If they are half as much of an enthusiast as you are or claim to be, then they'll respond with a competitive initiative of some sort. But this price war has to end. It really is not fair to American consumers. I know I'm personally tired that for the past 8 years, I've been handed piles of bulls#!t with a petunia sticking out of it and being told its the same bushel of roses I've always gotten.
Last edited by ShadowEvoIX; Jul 30, 2008 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Originally posted by myself on The Real JDM Blog comments section
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The true hardcore racing enthusiast know the reasons for the cost..But they are the smallest minority in this industry. The purchases they make wouldn't keep most vendors in business. In a way you need the "All show, no go" guys to keep them going.
Most vendors make thousands importing "JDM" tail lamps and headlights...do they offer any performance gain? No, but they look AWESOME at the best buy parking lot.
-Gabe
Most vendors make thousands importing "JDM" tail lamps and headlights...do they offer any performance gain? No, but they look AWESOME at the best buy parking lot.
-Gabe
Last edited by DrivelineSales; Jul 30, 2008 at 11:03 PM.
Good points on both sides but at the end of the day what it comes down to is that Voltex's market whether you like it or not is very scoped and narrow. Their true customers are mainly going to be people who expect real performance out of their products.
A good majority of people don't and thus will buy the knock off. Now if that pushes Voltex out of business, then it is their bad for not adjusting their business to survive.
They don't have to get rid of their top of the line expensive race products, they could introduce a cheaper line just for looks. To compete with the Seibons head on. Heck if they wanted to they could even call it something else so it doesn't tarnish their reputation.
But if they get put under by this at the end of the day that was just bad running of the business on their part. Business is business at the end of the day. You either evolve or you get left behind.
A good majority of people don't and thus will buy the knock off. Now if that pushes Voltex out of business, then it is their bad for not adjusting their business to survive.
They don't have to get rid of their top of the line expensive race products, they could introduce a cheaper line just for looks. To compete with the Seibons head on. Heck if they wanted to they could even call it something else so it doesn't tarnish their reputation.
But if they get put under by this at the end of the day that was just bad running of the business on their part. Business is business at the end of the day. You either evolve or you get left behind.
As of right now, thats about all the market is supporting- "all show, no go". Before the show scene, all you had were grassroot racers. They do still exist, and in a number larger than what most people think. Leave it to the media to completely dilute the industry in support of the fast and furious generation.
What I'm trying to say is pretty much, you're preeching to the wrong group of people. As sad as it might seem, it's the truth. I too would love to spread the word around and get people to stop buying knock off parts, but it's just not going to happen. When peole see a lest costly option they'll just jump on it. Even guys who race their Evo's. It's a sad thing, and I completely agree with everything you've said so far. I just wish people would be less stubborn or ignorant about this whole thing.
As of right now, thats about all the market is supporting- "all show, no go". Before the show scene, all you had were grassroot racers. They do still exist, and in a number larger than what most people think. The problem is the whole industry has been completely diluted in support of the fast and furious generation.
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Same thing when you open ANY page of Import Tuner, Modified, or Super Street. Thats why you will never see any of this mentioned outside of the internet. Seibon and all the rest pay way too much money to keep what it is they do in the mainstream.
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so much negative defeated attitude. is that all the fight that is left for this cause? is it not clear that show would not be show winning if it wasn't for the quality in design in execution that JDM sets the bar with? I mean, anyone can bondo up every body seam so it looks like it aligns, but then you're just wasting senseless man hours (time is money), only to make your car more crooked, and hope that a judge won't notice. Don't forget, most people don't drive show cars on the street. So now, your average kid, that is driving the streets in his Z that he buys his own parts for, is rolling with some crappy *** hood. And anyone that thinks that they know cars better than him isn't going to knock his ride? God dam. If you are going to do something, do it well. Especially if you're buying something that is supposed to at least look like JDM. Never have I ever hear of any JDM hood, curling up like a potato chip.
if a supposed brand is knocking a jdm brand and the quality is the same or damn near it, who wouldnt buy their product? i do understand what your saying but also not too many people especially Those who actually DRIVE their cars more then once a month and not only to car shows will not dish out 4 grand on some volks to get destroyed from road debris or potholes. same goes for other exterior parts as well. i myself and ill try to speak for those who also feel me would of course love to buy some bad *** jdm parts but for the price it seems very impractical, especially if your evo,sti supra or whatever is a daily no one wants to see their top of the line stuff get wrecked. on another note if the companies want us to stop buying knock off products they should then start lowering the prices. because as you said as well times are hard and us enthusiasts want our moneys worth. just my 2 cents
Those who actually DRIVE their cars more then once a month and not only to car shows will not dish out 4 grand on some volks to get destroyed from road debris or potholes. same goes for other exterior parts as well. i myself and ill try to speak for those who also feel me would of course love to buy some bad *** jdm parts but for the price it seems very impractical, especially if your evo,sti supra or whatever is a daily no one wants to see their top of the line stuff get wrecked.
I guess innovative design and thorough testing doesn't constitute "getting your money's worth"? The day you can arrange some cheap wind-tunnel testing for Voltex is the day they'll lower their prices. With quality companies like Voltex and Volk, its not just the product you're paying for, its the substantial R&D and testing. This doesn't come cheap. And I can guarantee you that companies like Seibon could give a **** about R&D because they just rip-off other people's designs, hence the lower price.Thanks to Ben for a great article. I read your blog every day and really enjoy it.
An Inconvenient Truth… About JDM - aka "The Death of Innovation"
... by Ben Schaffer of Bulletproof Automotive
Let me preface this post by mentioning that what I’m going to say here is something you’re probably not used to reading in magazines or other professional media. Unlike media which requires advertising money to survive (the same advertisers I’m about to talk about), I don’t have those biases and conflicts of interest which limit my ability to speak the truth. The cover-up of the damage being done is massive. Everyone (from magazine editors and website forum owners who happily accept their advertising money, to the very retail companies which sell these problematic parts and happily reap the profits) will admit behind closed doors that this is an industry crushing problem and yet everyone says they cant change it or do anything about it. The fact is nobody wants to stick their neck on the line to do anything about it and for that reason they are right…nothing can be done. On to the post.
_____
I half jokingly can say that I’m the Al Gore of this particular topic. Much like how Al Gore made it his duty to explain to the world the disastrous consequences of global warming, I’ve been over the years trying to educate people about the disastrous effects of these companies making knockoffs and what our future will look like if everyone keeps supporting them by buying their parts.
I’m at the point these days where I’m tired of talking about it because the fact is that I always end up being the “bad guy” for just bringing it up. So rather than talk about how these US companies are stealing designs and putting companies in Japan out of business…and rather than talk about the horrific future of this industry that will exist when the only new product designs coming out will be original designs from the same knockoff companies that got rich stealing other peoples work and eventually have nothing left to steal (have you ever seen how awful their work is when they’re forced to make an original design?).
I’m just not going to go deep into talking about it this time. Instead I’m going to show you a concrete new example of exactly what I’ve been warning people about for the past few years. Nobody cares when I say it…so here are the facts and not my words:
FACTS:
(posted with permission of DriveLine and Bulletproof, Voltex’s two distributors in North America)
Voltex just recently announced on their website that they are stopping all production of their wet carbon CT9A Lancer Evolution 8/9 hoods. Why? Because they learned that Seibon made a knockoff of their hood and that people were actually buying the knockoff. Out of concern that people could accidentally mistake the Seibon quality for Voltex quality if they saw it on a car at a race/street/show, Voltex made a statement on their website that they will no longer make that hood in wet carbon.
Here is a picture of the Voltex hood which they wind tunnel tested and did extensive R&D with the Cyber Evo over the years, at their expense of course…with the hope that they’d be able to sell enough to recoup their expenses so they could continue on making more innovative original parts:
And here’s Seibon’s version, which simply came from buying one authentic Voltex hood and then making a cheaper replica (which of course they can sell cheaper since they saved all of the R&D, molding and tooling costs):
http://www.seiboncarbon.com/Images_U...TEVO8-CWII.jpg
So there you have it. Another product is now dead. Do people care yet? Probably not…Will people care the next time Voltex needs to look at the costs to decide if they want to produce an Aero hood for their next car and conclude that its not worth it? Probably still not. Will people care when there are almost no new products coming out with proper R&D because no company can find a way to make their money back? Yeah…probably then people will care…but it wont matter because by that point it’ll be too late to say we’re sorry and turn back the clock.
I hope everyone with their Seibon hoods out there are happy. And Seibon isnt the only company, there are many. I can name hundreds of examples of the same story, just swap Seibon for another brand and swap Voltex for another industry innovator. An interesting point is that if you pick up any US magazine you can find most of the companies that are making the copy parts with full page advertisements, yet you wont find nearly as many of the true innovating companies (the ones getting knocked off) because they cant afford the advertising rates to publish their own ads. This is because the knockoff brands are making far more profit than the companies who actually design the parts, and as such the innovating companies often cant afford the costs of full page advertisements whereas the knockoff brands are increasingly more rich and can afford the ads. As a result, the knockoff brands have the magazines and major media support despite the lack of ethics in the whole thing…like they say, money talks.
In a time when the Japanese tuning companies rely on overseas sales more than ever for their survival, they look over here and see cars on the covers of almost all US magazines with knockoffs of their products proudly sporting Seibon stickers and other like minded brands. Maybe you can tell me how to convince these companies in Japan to keep making new parts when their own fans who claim to represent JDM will drive around at the same time with a Seibon hood on their car. I honestly dont know how to convince them anymore…and quite literally I am the guy they often consult with when deciding what new parts to produce.
Sometimes I’m ashamed of elements of this industry that I’ve dedicated my life to. It saddens me that there is such little incentive and motivation for the innovators that are the ones who actually make the parts we love. Unfortunately nobody will care until its too late and the scene is dead. Or thats what it seems at least. I sure hope I’m wrong.
PS: People have often said to me that my no knockoff stance of how I handle my cars, my promotion, who I decide to affiliate myself and my company with, and which cars we sponsor would classify me as a “JDM purist”. I take no offense to the word “purist”, but I am not a purist simply because of my belief that I wont condone knockoffs. Being a purist implies some uncommonly strong belief in something. I would instead prefer to think that my belief of not wanting JDM to die is a fairly logical and common belief amongst anyone who loves this culture and loves the innovative cars coming out worldwide.
______
To view the original source of which this post came from, please review the link below:
http://www.bespokeventures.com/blog/?p=1002
... by Ben Schaffer of Bulletproof Automotive
Let me preface this post by mentioning that what I’m going to say here is something you’re probably not used to reading in magazines or other professional media. Unlike media which requires advertising money to survive (the same advertisers I’m about to talk about), I don’t have those biases and conflicts of interest which limit my ability to speak the truth. The cover-up of the damage being done is massive. Everyone (from magazine editors and website forum owners who happily accept their advertising money, to the very retail companies which sell these problematic parts and happily reap the profits) will admit behind closed doors that this is an industry crushing problem and yet everyone says they cant change it or do anything about it. The fact is nobody wants to stick their neck on the line to do anything about it and for that reason they are right…nothing can be done. On to the post.
_____
I half jokingly can say that I’m the Al Gore of this particular topic. Much like how Al Gore made it his duty to explain to the world the disastrous consequences of global warming, I’ve been over the years trying to educate people about the disastrous effects of these companies making knockoffs and what our future will look like if everyone keeps supporting them by buying their parts.
I’m at the point these days where I’m tired of talking about it because the fact is that I always end up being the “bad guy” for just bringing it up. So rather than talk about how these US companies are stealing designs and putting companies in Japan out of business…and rather than talk about the horrific future of this industry that will exist when the only new product designs coming out will be original designs from the same knockoff companies that got rich stealing other peoples work and eventually have nothing left to steal (have you ever seen how awful their work is when they’re forced to make an original design?).
I’m just not going to go deep into talking about it this time. Instead I’m going to show you a concrete new example of exactly what I’ve been warning people about for the past few years. Nobody cares when I say it…so here are the facts and not my words:
FACTS:
(posted with permission of DriveLine and Bulletproof, Voltex’s two distributors in North America)
Voltex just recently announced on their website that they are stopping all production of their wet carbon CT9A Lancer Evolution 8/9 hoods. Why? Because they learned that Seibon made a knockoff of their hood and that people were actually buying the knockoff. Out of concern that people could accidentally mistake the Seibon quality for Voltex quality if they saw it on a car at a race/street/show, Voltex made a statement on their website that they will no longer make that hood in wet carbon.
Here is a picture of the Voltex hood which they wind tunnel tested and did extensive R&D with the Cyber Evo over the years, at their expense of course…with the hope that they’d be able to sell enough to recoup their expenses so they could continue on making more innovative original parts:
And here’s Seibon’s version, which simply came from buying one authentic Voltex hood and then making a cheaper replica (which of course they can sell cheaper since they saved all of the R&D, molding and tooling costs):
http://www.seiboncarbon.com/Images_U...TEVO8-CWII.jpg
So there you have it. Another product is now dead. Do people care yet? Probably not…Will people care the next time Voltex needs to look at the costs to decide if they want to produce an Aero hood for their next car and conclude that its not worth it? Probably still not. Will people care when there are almost no new products coming out with proper R&D because no company can find a way to make their money back? Yeah…probably then people will care…but it wont matter because by that point it’ll be too late to say we’re sorry and turn back the clock.
I hope everyone with their Seibon hoods out there are happy. And Seibon isnt the only company, there are many. I can name hundreds of examples of the same story, just swap Seibon for another brand and swap Voltex for another industry innovator. An interesting point is that if you pick up any US magazine you can find most of the companies that are making the copy parts with full page advertisements, yet you wont find nearly as many of the true innovating companies (the ones getting knocked off) because they cant afford the advertising rates to publish their own ads. This is because the knockoff brands are making far more profit than the companies who actually design the parts, and as such the innovating companies often cant afford the costs of full page advertisements whereas the knockoff brands are increasingly more rich and can afford the ads. As a result, the knockoff brands have the magazines and major media support despite the lack of ethics in the whole thing…like they say, money talks.
In a time when the Japanese tuning companies rely on overseas sales more than ever for their survival, they look over here and see cars on the covers of almost all US magazines with knockoffs of their products proudly sporting Seibon stickers and other like minded brands. Maybe you can tell me how to convince these companies in Japan to keep making new parts when their own fans who claim to represent JDM will drive around at the same time with a Seibon hood on their car. I honestly dont know how to convince them anymore…and quite literally I am the guy they often consult with when deciding what new parts to produce.
Sometimes I’m ashamed of elements of this industry that I’ve dedicated my life to. It saddens me that there is such little incentive and motivation for the innovators that are the ones who actually make the parts we love. Unfortunately nobody will care until its too late and the scene is dead. Or thats what it seems at least. I sure hope I’m wrong.
PS: People have often said to me that my no knockoff stance of how I handle my cars, my promotion, who I decide to affiliate myself and my company with, and which cars we sponsor would classify me as a “JDM purist”. I take no offense to the word “purist”, but I am not a purist simply because of my belief that I wont condone knockoffs. Being a purist implies some uncommonly strong belief in something. I would instead prefer to think that my belief of not wanting JDM to die is a fairly logical and common belief amongst anyone who loves this culture and loves the innovative cars coming out worldwide.
______
To view the original source of which this post came from, please review the link below:
http://www.bespokeventures.com/blog/?p=1002
If Voltex etc were superior to Seibon they would see sales, but I'm guessing the price difference is so high people are willing to accept Seibon quality.
I do think you have a very valid point in most situation just not sure if body parts are the best example.
You have to pay to play.
Harsh? Somewhat. True? Absolutely. If you want a well-designed, highly functional product... you need to pay the top dollar associated with this item. I am NOT strictly saying that only Japanese parts are top notch in this industry because that is not true. There are plenty of fine companies in the US that are creating awesome parts BY THEIR OWN DESIGN AND RESEARCH. An Evo isn't some little beater that's slapped together haphazardly, this is a $30,000+ racing machine. The parts that are put on this car should match accordingly. Top, upper echelon quality and best price Wal-Mart deal do not go hand in hand, I'm sorry.
They don't have to get rid of their top of the line expensive race products, they could introduce a cheaper line just for looks. To compete with the Seibons head on. Heck if they wanted to they could even call it something else so it doesn't tarnish their reputation.
But if they get put under by this at the end of the day that was just bad running of the business on their part. Business is business at the end of the day. You either evolve or you get left behind.
But if they get put under by this at the end of the day that was just bad running of the business on their part. Business is business at the end of the day. You either evolve or you get left behind.
Game. Set. Match. Truth.
I think if Voltex could produce more product they'd be able to sell it, They are a small operation with no real hopes of keeping up with the Seibon's of the world. When your products are
A. Hard to get because of long lead time
B. Expensive
C. Not widely available
D. Highly sought after
Companies will come up with ways to give consumers the base of the orriginals great parts but without the hardships of procuring them. Will the quality be there? No, Will the exclusivity be there? No
But Rays is a great example of showing the fortitude, And thriving.
A. Hard to get because of long lead time
B. Expensive
C. Not widely available
D. Highly sought after
Companies will come up with ways to give consumers the base of the orriginals great parts but without the hardships of procuring them. Will the quality be there? No, Will the exclusivity be there? No
But Rays is a great example of showing the fortitude, And thriving.
As a shop owner I completely agree with Ben has to say. The aftermarket industry has been way too saturated with knock off parts of poor quality. These knock off parts make it very hard for a company who are selling authentic parts to make money at all. To the masses if the parts are cheap enough who cares if its a knock off. Its becoming harder and harder to be a parts only vendor due to extreme saturation and competition of price. I don't believe there will be a complete solution because not everyone wants to buy authentic or willing to pay the price of having something authentic.
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[center][b][size=5]
With all due respect, this is a terrible example. How much money you have is not a direct indication of the types of parts you buy. You can have the richest guy in the world buying knock-off parts for his car and not worrying a thing about it because he got a great deal... and you can have the struggling guy eating Ramen noodles in his parents' basement as he's staring at the brand new, name-brand, track tested, fine-fitting products across the room.
With all due respect, this is a terrible example. How much money you have is not a direct indication of the types of parts you buy. You can have the richest guy in the world buying knock-off parts for his car and not worrying a thing about it because he got a great deal... and you can have the struggling guy eating Ramen noodles in his parents' basement as he's staring at the brand new, name-brand, track tested, fine-fitting products across the room.
Ohh man is that true. I have so many stories which can set a perfect example.