evo 9 mr vs c6
I own a 350z tricked out great DD and i am working on my evo 8. I dont understand you period. You say in BOLD evos should be in the hands of an owner who knows there stuff about cars. Wtf does that mean. I own alot of cars plenty. I mostly do exterior mods never done any engine work. with that being said the evo is the first turbocharged car i have owned. Never messed with forced induction until now. I been learning HUGE HUGE amounts from tuners and vendors and members. I have done all installs myself and have written plenty of guides to installs not on this site for others like me. that want to do it on there own and learn but nobody will take the time to explain the proper process or they get flamed because you feel your better. Who gives a fly ***** if your not experienced because you know what, once you own the car and either problems happen or you want to upgrade something. Guess what your gonna have have to learn new stuff and research and research some more till you get it right. So your basically saying if you dont come from a DSM techy background or know stuff about cars(wtf) you have no business owning a EVO. what qualifies you as knowing stuff about cars. WORKING ON THEM ALL THE TIME, OWNING MANY CARS, HITTING THE SEARCH BUTTON AND READING OTHERS OPINIONS TO FORM YOUR OWN!! all your doing is discourging folks from buying that new evo you make them seem like they are complicated to work on. like being a newbie is a bad thing. We were all new once and introduced to the engine. Im sorry I along with many have to pull the BS FLAG on you the only way your gonna get experience and "know stuff about Cars" is to get in there and DO it.
one more thing to the OP get what you can afford period. The economy is horrible have to take in considering what if you get fired etc could you still make that payment. Cost of repairs on each. Dont always look at the good as others state take in account what if this happens can i afford to fix it etc then you will find your answer as to what car to buy wether its a SE MR SE-MR GSR evo 8-9 RS does not really matter there all evos. the bottomline is this if it breaks YOUR GONNA FIX IT tranny or not.
one more thing to the OP get what you can afford period. The economy is horrible have to take in considering what if you get fired etc could you still make that payment. Cost of repairs on each. Dont always look at the good as others state take in account what if this happens can i afford to fix it etc then you will find your answer as to what car to buy wether its a SE MR SE-MR GSR evo 8-9 RS does not really matter there all evos. the bottomline is this if it breaks YOUR GONNA FIX IT tranny or not.
<sigh> You again? I snipped the bulk of your post due to pure redundancy. Frankly, beating you up isn't exactly thrilling. As a parent, it makes me feel like I'm picking on a child and it's nothing to be proud of. Enjoy your car.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Hong Kong
I really appreciate FJF's effort to clear up the mess made by North American Mitsubishi's marketing/sales team.
Even until now, there are only two trims for Lancer Evolution; RS and GSR. There has been middleground trims from Evo 6 to Evo 9, such as RS II, RS 6-speed, GT, where they all fall as a trim level between the RS and the GSR. MR was never a trim level in Japan.
The first time 'MR' badge was introduced to Lancer Evolution was in 2004. The difference between VIII and VIII MR was similar to VI and VI Tommi Makkinen Edition, such as titanium turbo wheel, minor aerodynamics improvement (bumper for VI, vortex generator for VIII), rally-style wheels for the TME, BBS wheels for the MR as well as the fancy visual enhancements.
Outside North America, VIII MR means Evo 8.5, and VI TME means Evo 6.5. They follow the trim level like any other Evolution series:
VI TME RS
VI TME RSII
VI TME GSR
VIII MR RS
VIII MR RS 6 speed
VIII MR GSR
MR was introduced for IX as well, think of it as 'SE' visual enhancements, along with smaller but supposedly more efficient turbo (155G) with titanium wheels, remapped ECU, Eibach springs and Bilstein suspension. Trim levels were:
IX MR RS
IX MR GT
IX MR GSR
All RS and GSR shared 5 speed manual, but the following were exception; VIII, VIII MR, IX, IX MR. These had 6 speed as standard for GSR trim.
As cool as all these list of performance enhancement sounds for all these generations, there hasn't been much track time enhancement since Evo 4. Here are some times:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/e...kuba-lap-times
I believe the times are done in a GSR trim (non Type RA or Spec C for suby). These tests are done in those particular years so year to year comparison may not be too accurate, but you do get the point that there hasn't been much change. Also these guys only run one time without re-runs and run regardless of track condition, so some of the times may be off.
In addition to the changes made for heading to North American market such as the emission control system and left hand drive configuration, USDM VIII MR is pretty much a JDM 'VIII MR'(8.5) GSR without AYC and titanium turbo wheel. USDM IX MR is JDM IX GSR without AYC, but with the optional BBS wheels and Bilstein shocks package. USDM IX SE MR is JDM 'IX MR'(9.5) GSR without AYC, downsized turbo, ECU changes and most likely Eibach springs missing as well.
Now to MR_Lance:
There is only 200rpm difference because the gear ratios are nearly identical for 1 (1), 2 (2), 3 (3) and 5 (6). Unless you run on a course that has a lot of sections where utilizing 4th and 5th gear of the 6-speed has big advantage over staying in 4th gear for the 5 speed, there isn't going to be much of a benefit. Unfortunately the 6-speed provides this potential benefit at the cost of durability and weight. As you agreed, the 6-speed is weaker. I am sure there are a lot of inexperienced drivers that would stay in one gear with the 5-speed as well too. Although I just don't understand what these guys are doing on track, they should be in heavily underpowered cars with all the additional money being spent on instructions.
I understand the transmission not being able to withstand people ripping through them to juice out every 1/100th of a second in a quarter mile. But shouldn't it be able to handle occasional track days and auto-x especially if it is such a 'holy grail' of performance cars?
The reason for all this correcting and plethora of facts is being thrown is because how the MR owners in general talk as if 'MR' is the best performance of all Evo trim. The difference between USDM GSR and MR trim that would affect performance are the transmission, the wheels, the shocks, and the vortex generator. This is the aftermath of the Mitsu NA sales and marketing preaching people of MR's 'performance benefits', which in reality, is just a ploy to get people to buy the overpriced options and accessories.
Unfortunately for the transmission, most motorsports type of person prefers the 5 speed over the 6 speed on Evo. Of course, for other cars, their 6-speed option may be a lot more benefitial, it may even be lighter, stronger and more importantly, have gear ratios that have had some serious effort put into.
The Bilstein shocks on MR suppose to make no difference performance-wise, and only benefit is to improve comfort.
So the only true performance benefit would be the wheels and the vortex generator. Is this really worth paying over 3k extra as well as 50lbs of additional weight? Most people prefer they pay 3k less, save the weight, have the more reliable 5-speed and ignore the slight harshness of regular shocks, then use that money for even lighter wheels and a vortex generator.
Even until now, there are only two trims for Lancer Evolution; RS and GSR. There has been middleground trims from Evo 6 to Evo 9, such as RS II, RS 6-speed, GT, where they all fall as a trim level between the RS and the GSR. MR was never a trim level in Japan.
The first time 'MR' badge was introduced to Lancer Evolution was in 2004. The difference between VIII and VIII MR was similar to VI and VI Tommi Makkinen Edition, such as titanium turbo wheel, minor aerodynamics improvement (bumper for VI, vortex generator for VIII), rally-style wheels for the TME, BBS wheels for the MR as well as the fancy visual enhancements.
Outside North America, VIII MR means Evo 8.5, and VI TME means Evo 6.5. They follow the trim level like any other Evolution series:
VI TME RS
VI TME RSII
VI TME GSR
VIII MR RS
VIII MR RS 6 speed
VIII MR GSR
MR was introduced for IX as well, think of it as 'SE' visual enhancements, along with smaller but supposedly more efficient turbo (155G) with titanium wheels, remapped ECU, Eibach springs and Bilstein suspension. Trim levels were:
IX MR RS
IX MR GT
IX MR GSR
All RS and GSR shared 5 speed manual, but the following were exception; VIII, VIII MR, IX, IX MR. These had 6 speed as standard for GSR trim.
As cool as all these list of performance enhancement sounds for all these generations, there hasn't been much track time enhancement since Evo 4. Here are some times:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/e...kuba-lap-times
I believe the times are done in a GSR trim (non Type RA or Spec C for suby). These tests are done in those particular years so year to year comparison may not be too accurate, but you do get the point that there hasn't been much change. Also these guys only run one time without re-runs and run regardless of track condition, so some of the times may be off.
In addition to the changes made for heading to North American market such as the emission control system and left hand drive configuration, USDM VIII MR is pretty much a JDM 'VIII MR'(8.5) GSR without AYC and titanium turbo wheel. USDM IX MR is JDM IX GSR without AYC, but with the optional BBS wheels and Bilstein shocks package. USDM IX SE MR is JDM 'IX MR'(9.5) GSR without AYC, downsized turbo, ECU changes and most likely Eibach springs missing as well.
Now to MR_Lance:
There is only 200rpm difference because the gear ratios are nearly identical for 1 (1), 2 (2), 3 (3) and 5 (6). Unless you run on a course that has a lot of sections where utilizing 4th and 5th gear of the 6-speed has big advantage over staying in 4th gear for the 5 speed, there isn't going to be much of a benefit. Unfortunately the 6-speed provides this potential benefit at the cost of durability and weight. As you agreed, the 6-speed is weaker. I am sure there are a lot of inexperienced drivers that would stay in one gear with the 5-speed as well too. Although I just don't understand what these guys are doing on track, they should be in heavily underpowered cars with all the additional money being spent on instructions.
I understand the transmission not being able to withstand people ripping through them to juice out every 1/100th of a second in a quarter mile. But shouldn't it be able to handle occasional track days and auto-x especially if it is such a 'holy grail' of performance cars?
The reason for all this correcting and plethora of facts is being thrown is because how the MR owners in general talk as if 'MR' is the best performance of all Evo trim. The difference between USDM GSR and MR trim that would affect performance are the transmission, the wheels, the shocks, and the vortex generator. This is the aftermath of the Mitsu NA sales and marketing preaching people of MR's 'performance benefits', which in reality, is just a ploy to get people to buy the overpriced options and accessories.
Unfortunately for the transmission, most motorsports type of person prefers the 5 speed over the 6 speed on Evo. Of course, for other cars, their 6-speed option may be a lot more benefitial, it may even be lighter, stronger and more importantly, have gear ratios that have had some serious effort put into.
The Bilstein shocks on MR suppose to make no difference performance-wise, and only benefit is to improve comfort.
So the only true performance benefit would be the wheels and the vortex generator. Is this really worth paying over 3k extra as well as 50lbs of additional weight? Most people prefer they pay 3k less, save the weight, have the more reliable 5-speed and ignore the slight harshness of regular shocks, then use that money for even lighter wheels and a vortex generator.
Thanks for a decent (and non *******) answer 4trouble. Thing is I think some people assume that if you have an MR you somehow think it's infinitely better than any other evo out there and I just don't feel that is the case. People who don't know anything about the different trims assume the MR is the best simply because it is the most expensive. Non evo owners talk about the MR as if it is some super evo, rarely do I hear it coming from MR owners. That whole idea is the fault of mitsubishi and their marketing people, not the people who own the MR. People who barely recognize the car is an evo will ask me "oh so is it an MR" like that makes it better or something. Other evo owners see the car and they know if it's an MR or not, and know that i'm not gonna smash all over them because their car isn't.
I just read this whole thread and wow. Talk about interesting. I find it funny that the OP hasn't posted a single reply since his ini tial post, yet this thread has gone 5 pages strong. I assume because of the MR argument.
I'll add my 2 cents to the argument. And this is purely my thoughts, no facts really. I own an MR. I bought it a little over a year ago while in Iraq. I wanted the "top of the line" Evo and decided what better than an MR. Now I have never been truely disatisfied with my car, but I wish I had done a bit more homework. I would have bought an SE or even waiting until I got home and actually drove the X instead of hating it from day one based on it's looks and lack of a 4G63 alone.
Again, that's not to say I don't love my car, but have just turned 22k on the clock and I've been making a reliable 330whp for the past 6+ months and I enjoy driving my car "hard" I have now developed a 3rd/4th gear grind that I beleive is the syncros going and I think it might just be partly due to the "weaker" nature of the MR transmission. Phew, that was a long sentence.
I don't know what my problem is from honestly. It might be because I have to drive my car in boots alot and I honestly suck driving that way. It might be because I did a lot of learning on this Evo with the way AWD works and what not. I will probably never know, but now I have a MR in my garage that although I love it, I worry that it might now hold up as well as one of it's 5 speed counter parts.
/rambling.
I'll add my 2 cents to the argument. And this is purely my thoughts, no facts really. I own an MR. I bought it a little over a year ago while in Iraq. I wanted the "top of the line" Evo and decided what better than an MR. Now I have never been truely disatisfied with my car, but I wish I had done a bit more homework. I would have bought an SE or even waiting until I got home and actually drove the X instead of hating it from day one based on it's looks and lack of a 4G63 alone.
Again, that's not to say I don't love my car, but have just turned 22k on the clock and I've been making a reliable 330whp for the past 6+ months and I enjoy driving my car "hard" I have now developed a 3rd/4th gear grind that I beleive is the syncros going and I think it might just be partly due to the "weaker" nature of the MR transmission. Phew, that was a long sentence.
I don't know what my problem is from honestly. It might be because I have to drive my car in boots alot and I honestly suck driving that way. It might be because I did a lot of learning on this Evo with the way AWD works and what not. I will probably never know, but now I have a MR in my garage that although I love it, I worry that it might now hold up as well as one of it's 5 speed counter parts.
/rambling.
doccola why not just trade the MR in for a evo 9 or rather a evo 8. I prefer the gsr and all its glory. sunroof yes and all those so called MR parts you can buy now and days. maybe when it was first released yea but now not so much. I had a choice on lancer brand. I ended up getting a 08 Fully load Lancer that im trading in for a new 09 Rallart. then i bought the car i always wanted which is a evo 8 GSR. i could have gotten anything evo 9 SE MR GSR RS. but again i did my homework for 5 years and i wanted a intercooler sprayer period lol. i really wanted that because i thought it was cool. just another toy to play with. i heard about the tranny on the MR and there were no real benifits to that model personally thats worth the cash. the only thing cool i can see is the MR badges. But again this is america we can fix anything just get a tranny rebuild from sheps or the like and problem solved . its still a evo at heart. You can still pump it up with the same mods. just have alittle more bacon then its brothers. I just dont have to worry about my tranny giving me hell but again thats how Sheps and others stay in business. 
Last edited by RockmanX; Jan 4, 2009 at 04:42 AM.
doccola why not just trade the MR in for a evo 9 or rather a evo 8. I prefer the gsr and all its glory. sunroof yes and all those so called MR parts you can buy now and days. maybe when it was first released yea but now not so much. I had a choice on lancer brand. I ended up getting a 08 Fully load Lancer that im trading in for a new 09 Rallart. then i bought the car i always wanted which is a evo 8 GSR. i could have gotten anything evo 9 SE MR GSR RS. but again i did my homework for 5 years and i wanted a intercooler sprayer period lol. i really wanted that because i thought it was cool. just another toy to play with. i heard about the tranny on the MR and there were no real benifits to that model personally thats worth the cash. the only thing cool i can see is the MR badges. But again this is america we can fix anything just get a tranny rebuild from sheps or the like and problem solved . its still a evo at heart. You can still pump it up with the same mods. just have alittle more bacon then its bothers. I just dont have to worry about my tranny giving me hell but again thats how Sheps and others stay in business.
Awesome.
I have an MR, tuned by ams 324whp, I like it.
Yeah i paid extra for the radio and stuff, but I took the radio out and put in gauges instead. And I took off the Blistein suspension and put Megan coilovers on. Handles much better now. I don't do any track racing and I only intend on upping the power with a 30R turbo, so I will have 400-420 whp hopefully.
Yeah i paid extra for the radio and stuff, but I took the radio out and put in gauges instead. And I took off the Blistein suspension and put Megan coilovers on. Handles much better now. I don't do any track racing and I only intend on upping the power with a 30R turbo, so I will have 400-420 whp hopefully.
Fjf you have proven to be right, but you still have no class, bragging and talking about spoon feeding the ignorant...?!? Sometimes the smartest thing to say is to say nothing at all, and hopefully as a parent that you are, you teach your child that "if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all" remember like the new england pats, no class....
Fjf you have proven to be right, but you still have no class, bragging and talking about spoon feeding the ignorant...?!? Sometimes the smartest thing to say is to say nothing at all, and hopefully as a parent that you are, you teach your child that "if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all" remember like the new england pats, no class....
doccola why not just trade the MR in for a evo 9 or rather a evo 8. I prefer the gsr and all its glory. sunroof yes and all those so called MR parts you can buy now and days. maybe when it was first released yea but now not so much. I had a choice on lancer brand. I ended up getting a 08 Fully load Lancer that im trading in for a new 09 Rallart. then i bought the car i always wanted which is a evo 8 GSR. i could have gotten anything evo 9 SE MR GSR RS. but again i did my homework for 5 years and i wanted a intercooler sprayer period lol. i really wanted that because i thought it was cool. just another toy to play with. i heard about the tranny on the MR and there were no real benifits to that model personally thats worth the cash. the only thing cool i can see is the MR badges. But again this is america we can fix anything just get a tranny rebuild from sheps or the like and problem solved . its still a evo at heart. You can still pump it up with the same mods. just have alittle more bacon then its brothers. I just dont have to worry about my tranny giving me hell but again thats how Sheps and others stay in business.
Fjf you have proven to be right, but you still have no class, bragging and talking about spoon feeding the ignorant...?!? Sometimes the smartest thing to say is to say nothing at all, and hopefully as a parent that you are, you teach your child that "if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all" remember like the new england pats, no class....
Sorry, that just pissed me off. Kind of a stupid comment to make. Which team of yours did we beat that you think that?