Problem:
Car will crank forever before firing on a cold start. A total of 2 minutes of cranking, key on crank it then key off, rinse repeat about 10-15 times for about 4 seconds of cranking each time... then it will flutter and i can tell the next time i crank it will run. This happens on pump gas and E85 in the same manner. However, after the car has ran for a while it will start right up.

Has anyone else on a big fuel system like this ran into any issues?

My theory is that the feed line is so large, and with an EVO the pumps only run when cranking, that the fuel is taking forever to get to the injectors, which causes the starting issues.

My Setup:
2.3 with stage 3 head
Buschur 35R
Stock ECU with Map/IAT mod
Twin pumps (Full Blown) and -10AN feed -8 return
Aeromotive Rail
Aeromotive FPR
ID2000 injectors

 

dont quote me on this, as i dont remember what companies were involved, but ive heard of some types of injectors having vaporization issues, causing either the cold start or warm start to be troublesome.. there was one set that had issues with cold start, but would start up warm instantly; then another that would start cold without any issues, but would "vapor lock" (forgive me if these arent the correct terminology.. you get the point) on warm start and would take several cranks to cycle until good gas came up.

something to look into. i know for sure it dealt with injectors, so theres a start..

 

To add some more info I tuned the car and set it up on v7 SD. The car runs perfect and is really strong! The IPW tables were setup correctly. I think we have some more tuning with the injector scaling and latencies but they are pretty close.

Here is some more crazy info, the car will not idle leaner than 11.5 as well! I have it forced to open loop full time and it still idles around 11.0-11.5.

He is running the exact same map my car is running just the injectors changed and open loop forced. That's the only difference! My car is rock solid, starts perfect and holds perfect idle.

Anyone think it could be a mechanical issue other than a tuning issue?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

remember tho, when we tried to run your map, with the injectors scaled, that the car would not start. The car likes to start only the current map. Is there any differences between your map and mine (startup tables/etc)

 

No we are now running the exact same map, only difference is injector settings (IPW, Latency, and Scaling)....

 

UPDATE 3/31/2010:

So this morning i had to crank shortly, turn key off, crank again about 15-20 times before it would sputter a little... then it would sputter a bit more on the next crank, then it would finally fire after two sputters. To me, this is saying its not getting enough fuel. Anyone else have any ideas?

I can hear both pumps shut off after i quit cranking everytime

 

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? do you have other injectors just to try. I know on another car It had issues with the FIC 2150's wich are essentially the same injector. Did you remove the resistor box when you installed these injectors?

 

that's exactly what I was thinking as I read, fuel pressure regulator malfunction, being over run or vacuum hose off. a gauge would tell you a lot, it should be about 40psi with vacuum attached or 43 disconnected IIRC (been awhile since I've had to check one)

also the resister box has to be defeated with those injectors.

 

Yeah the resistor box is disconnected.

Pressure is right at 40psi with vacuum connected.

 

how did you remove the box. Just un plug it cut the box off and wire all the wires together?? Also what are you using for scalling? Crazy idea but I wonder if it bump starts like that. I know with the external map sensor for AEM tru boost if the gauge turns off when the car cranks the map sensor takes it baro reading while the car is cranking, this throws the scale way off, i am not sure if that would pertain to an upgraded map sensor on SD...food for thought tho. The bump start test confirms this.

 

Yeah we took all the wires and soldered them together.

Working on the scaling currently but it should be close. Close enough to start on a couple of cranks, not 15-20.....

I am going to change the scaling and do some more testing.

 

I have heard of some evo's running e-85 and it had clogged the injectors. I believe he just put fuel injector cleaner and it fixed the problem...

 

it did this before i started running the E85, so i know this can be ruled out.