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15k Evo 9 MR 'Time Capsule' Build

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Old Feb 24, 2023 | 08:18 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by BRW21
wow, read your entire build thread. your attention to detail and knowledge is pretty outstanding man. Thank you very much for sharing all of this with me. It gives me a lot to think about. Desmond @ Performance Destination recommended the FP black for my goals. It seemed a bit strange to me given the power goals I have but he didn't like being challenged when asked why Black vs green etc... when I get the speed density done and all the engine parts completed I will probably revisit this because I will need a tune very soon. This is coming together much quicker than I anticipated.
Thanks man. I was in my 30's when I purchased that car and work at Real Street Performance so I had a solid group of people to bounce Ideas off for a perfect street car.
Looks like you decided on an FP Red BB. Good choice. I think its nearly perfect for a 2.0 mivec street car. If you ever build the engine (94mm crank) and want to stay stock frame it will make 600whp and slide whenever you want it.

You may want to get an ethanol gauge to insure you have proper content and more consistent E85 tuning/results. The stock Ecu doesn't adjust fuel trim to content or temps well.

FWIW, I would port the wastegate passage on the housing slightly for better boost control and less chance of creeping on a stock 2.0. IIRC I had creep on my stock engine until I did that.
An 18psi actuator would also be the move for pump gas and stock block shenigans. With the porting and 18psi gate I think my car still made 21-22psi or so with no duty cycle. I'd leave it at gate pressure for pump gas for longevity. With access to E85, thats when you can ramp the boost or timing in to ride the 400wtq limit of the stock rods in 1-4th.

May want to rent a dynojet at low smoothing for tuning. Its going to show how clean or dirty the engine is running. Street tuning isn't going to show that. Etuning is good to a point, but its nice when the tuner is at the keys in person to view all the information IMO.

Wouldn't hurt to watch the "How to tune an evo" series on youtube and read Merlins guide. Its dated but there is still some good information in there and its nice to wrap your head around what the tuner is doing . An HPA academy class may also be beneficial.

Puts some thought into gearing change or a clutch if the trans is coming out of the car. Most people change to Evo 8 third/fourth gears since they are taller. A final drive change down the road is also something to consider with 550whp+



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Old Feb 24, 2023 | 08:22 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Abacus
Thanks man. I was in my 30's when I purchased that car and work at Real Street Performance so I had a solid group of people to bounce Ideas off for a perfect street car.
Looks like you decided on an FP Red BB. Good choice. I think its nearly perfect for a 2.0 mivec street car. If you ever build the engine (94mm crank) and want to stay stock frame it will make 600whp and slide whenever you want it.

You may want to get an ethanol gauge to insure you have proper content and more consistent E85 tuning/results. The stock Ecu doesn't adjust fuel trim to content or temps well.

FWIW, I would port the wastegate passage on the housing slightly for better boost control and less chance of creeping on a stock 2.0. IIRC I had creep on my stock engine until I did that.
An 18psi actuator would also be the move for pump gas and stock block shenigans. With the porting and 18psi gate I think my car still made 21-22psi or so with no duty cycle. I'd leave it at gate pressure for pump gas for longevity. With access to E85, thats when you can ramp the boost or timing in to ride the 400wtq limit of the stock rods in 1-4th.

May want to rent a dynojet at low smoothing for tuning. Its going to show how clean or dirty the engine is running. Street tuning isn't going to show that. Etuning is good to a point, but its nice when the tuner is at the keys in person to view all the information IMO.

Wouldn't hurt to watch the "How to tune an evo" series on youtube and read Merlins guide. Its dated but there is still some good information in there and its nice to wrap your head around what the tuner is doing . An HPA academy class may also be beneficial.

Puts some thought into gearing change or a clutch if the trans is coming out of the car. Most people change to Evo 8 third/fourth gears since they are taller. A final drive change down the road is also something to consider with 550whp+
It's people like you that really are making this journey incredibly enjoyable. There is something special about getting a car 15 years AFTER everybody has been through the trials, errors, and successes of this platform. The knowledge and willingness to help is something I really appreciate and am truly thankful for. Every other community I have been involved in has been extremely closed minded, forcing 'this way is the only way' to build a car, and its really refreshing to get involved in a community and platform that is so open minded and helpful. I will absolutely take your recommendations and think it's a great idea to actually attempt to better understand WHAT the tuner is doing, and not just throwing darts blindly at something and hoping for the best. I love that.
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Old Feb 27, 2023 | 12:42 PM
  #48  
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Hey guys- not much to update. Did some cosmetic cleanup. new wiper assemblies and the little plastic pieces on the windscreen under the hood, some more titanium, and adjusting ride height to get a proper alignment done in a few days. I do have a couple questions though that I would love to run by some of you. I also did replace the fuel pump and the whining went away and is running great.

1) Burn smell. I have searched the forums pretty far and wide on this and it doesn't seem to be a huge issue so I am a little concerned. No smell when idle (even let it run for half hour, nothing), but when I get home, even after a literal 3 minute drive, I can smell it pretty strongly. I know how to drive and have shoved my face an inch away from every transmission component and it doesn't stink like a clutch would. The car has 16k miles on it now. All brand new fluids from tranny fluid, gear oil, motor oil, coolant, PSF, etc. and it all looks great. No leaks, oil level seems good (although very hard to read on these dipsticks), and no major rubbing of suspension components (slight rear rubbing on fast turns due to fitment but will be fixed thursday). I am stumped. I THINK I have isolated it to the left side of the engine bay but no belts are rubbing on anything, PSF fluid reservoir isn't leaking. Only thing I can think is that my oil cooler may be touching my front bumper. The mishimoto kit doesn't fit perfectly. Lines all look good, no leaks, but not sure how hot that unit gets. Next time I have the bumper off I will look, however it doesn't make sense that it only smells after driving. I guess it would take quite some time for the oil cooler to get up to temp. I also have a carbon fiber hood insert where the old mesh one was and it may be burning a bit and that could smell. Anyway, figured I would rant a bit and see if anybody has any insight. I have owned 20 cars and this is a first for me. it's a weird smell. Oily rubber / fluid smell.

2) FP Red BB Turbo install - I got my manifold, outlet, downpipe, race pipe, wastegate etc just waiting on the turbo, charge pipe, and intake. The install should go down in about a week or so. Originally I had planned on running lines but after seeing some conflicting info on the forum I figured this was a good place to post the concern. Being a BB turbo, I am assuming it needs some type of restrictor, or is my assumption not valid? I have no problem retaining the stock lines but will probably replace them with new ones regardless of the route I go. I will be running modestly in the high 20's for boost (I would assume based on power goals and being above the minimum boost threshold). Pasted below is the updated build I am keeping on hard for the tuner:

Fuel / Ignition
FIC high-z 1200cc injectors
Walbro 255 lph
JDC coil on plug ignition system

Intake
BSF titanium charge pipe
ETS titanium lower IC piping
BSF titanium intake
Tial Q Blow Off Valve
ETS Intercooler (3.5”)

Turbo
JM Fab twin scroll exhaust manifold
FP Red BB (Coated) with cast FP housing
Tomei outlet (940cc)
Tomei downpipe (3”)
Tomei race pipe (3.15”)
Tomei catback (3.15”)
Tial MVS 38mm wastegate

Electronics
Grimmspeed 3 port
Speed Density
AEM Boost
AEM Oil Temp
AEM Oil Pressure
AEM wideband
AEM water

Misc
Cosworth M2 Cams
Cosworth springs/retainers
ARP Head studs
Mishimoto oil cooler
Mishimoto radiator+fan

Thanks a bunch guys- looking forward to updating you more and will do my best to get some install pics of the major fun stuff!



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Old Feb 28, 2023 | 04:51 AM
  #49  
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Update:

After finally getting into the car and figuring out what cams are on the car, the nice guys @ JDC have filled me in on the high number of documented issues with the cosworth M2 cams. We are removing these cams and will be doing the following:

GSC S2 Billet Cams
GSC Stage 2 Beehive Springs / titanium retainers
GSC Zero Tick Lifters

Since I'll be in there, I will also be replacing the water pump, belts, gaskets, belt cover, cam sens housing covers, motor mounts, tensioners, and even decided to go ahead and get a new valve cover as mine is a little crusty. I will surprise you with this one.

I REALLY didn't want to go this route but after being informed on (and now reading for myself) some of the horror stories, this is a good opportunity to get this car right and make it as reliable as possible.
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Old Feb 28, 2023 | 06:25 AM
  #50  
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You aren't wasting any time! The oil burning smell might be a hard one. I had an tcase axle seal once that would weep from time to time but OEM diaqueen is a very distinct smell.

Just some thoughts/suggestions. The car will be faster then stock regardless of the route you end up.

Sometimes FP turbo's take time to ship so I'd wait until its in your hands to tear into the car . They come usually come with an external restrictor. Their site shows .125 for Post 2020 units. The 2020 + units are well sorted and you shouldn't need a turbo oil pressure regulator unless you are on 20/50 and drive away quickly without letting the oil get up to 140*. Some older units were finicky with oil pressure/draining. May want to call them incase there is another change.
https://www.forcedperformance.shop/c...ine-oil-filter

You mentioned FP cast housing/tial 38. SS housing, the car is going to feel pretty laggy. Power band will be 4500+ -8000 or so. I've had the SS housing and MHI. I strongly prefer the MHI housing for an OEM + setup.
I'm north of orlando if you want to come up and ride in my 2.2 MHI Red setup. Its a riot and will powerslide on demand. The SS housing doesn't have the hit of the MHI housing but will make more midrange and top end power. You mentioned response in an earlier post so I wanted to bring it up.
I had the MHI, then tested the SS. I disliked it for anything other then 4500rpm blasts. It was also a little laggy on the shifts to recover. I went back to the MHI housing and it brought back all the low rpm shenanigans these cars are loved for.

A set of ID1300's will drive well and make 530whp all in on E85. ID makes some really nice stuff . If your tuner has a sorted file for 1200's then thats understandable. Both are small injectors so it may not matter that much unless you were really looking at the ecu data.
http://injectordynamics.com/company-overview/
I found the 255 pump to be out of fuel around 430whp on E85. This was on stock wiring so a rewire would help.
Consider a boost a pump or JMS booster for the 255, it may give you enough fuel flow and its only on under boost. If you end up with an external fuel regulator you can also increase the base pressure.
https://kennebell.net/product/boost-a-pump-universal/


A lightly crushed stock BOV will drive better then the Tial Q and be quieter. But needs a custom adapter . The tial Q may need a lighter spring . Q definitely looks nicer!

I'd leave the stock head studs alone. They are installed by a machine all at once . Also, with the stock rods being the limiting factory you won't need them IMO. I ran my 80K mile stock engine over 600whp on stock head bolts. Tuning and fuel are key with any platform. If its rattled hard enough to need head studs then other areas may need to be looked at..

Consider a kiggly hla if you have the valve cover off. It helps keep more oil in the pan under acceleration.
I'd do the front motor mount and leave the rest. It will make the most difference for shifting . The other mounts help for racing but add ALOT of vibration .

Last edited by Abacus; Feb 28, 2023 at 06:42 AM.
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Old Feb 28, 2023 | 06:56 AM
  #51  
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From: Naples Florida
Originally Posted by Abacus
You aren't wasting any time! The oil burning smell might be a hard one. I had an tcase axle seal once that would weep from time to time but OEM diaqueen is a very distinct smell.

Just some thoughts/suggestions. The car will be faster then stock regardless of the route you end up.

Sometimes FP turbo's take time to ship so I'd wait until its in your hands to tear into the car . They come usually come with an external restrictor. Their site shows .125 for Post 2020 units. The 2020 + units are well sorted and you shouldn't need a turbo oil pressure regulator unless you are on 20/50 and drive away quickly without letting the oil get up to 140*. Some older units were finicky with oil pressure/draining. May want to call them incase there is another change.
https://www.forcedperformance.shop/c...ine-oil-filter

You mentioned FP cast housing/tial 38. SS housing, the car is going to feel pretty laggy. Power band will be 4500+ -8000 or so. I've had the SS housing and MHI. I strongly prefer the MHI housing for an OEM + setup.
I'm north of orlando if you want to come up and ride in my 2.2 MHI Red setup. Its a riot and will powerslide on demand. The SS housing doesn't have the hit of the MHI housing but will make more midrange and top end power. You mentioned response in an earlier post so I wanted to bring it up.
I had the MHI, then tested the SS. I disliked it for anything other then 4500rpm blasts. It was also a little laggy on the shifts to recover. I went back to the MHI housing and it brought back all the low rpm shenanigans these cars are loved for.

A set of ID1300's will drive well and make 530whp all in on E85. ID makes some really nice stuff . If your tuner has a sorted file for 1200's then thats understandable. Both are small injectors so it may not matter that much unless you were really looking at the ecu data.
http://injectordynamics.com/company-overview/
I found the 255 pump to be out of fuel around 430whp on E85. This was on stock wiring so a rewire would help.
Consider a boost a pump or JMS booster for the 255, it may give you enough fuel flow and its only on under boost. If you end up with an external fuel regulator you can also increase the base pressure.
https://kennebell.net/product/boost-a-pump-universal/


A lightly crushed stock BOV will drive better then the Tial Q and be quieter. But needs a custom adapter . The tial Q may need a lighter spring . Q definitely looks nicer!

I'd leave the stock head studs alone. They are installed by a machine all at once . Also, with the stock rods being the limiting factory you won't need them IMO. I ran my 80K mile stock engine over 600whp on stock head bolts. Tuning and fuel are key with any platform. If its rattled hard enough to need head studs then other areas may need to be looked at..

Consider a kiggly hla if you have the valve cover off. It helps keep more oil in the pan under acceleration.
I'd do the front motor mount and leave the rest. It will make the most difference for shifting . The other mounts help for racing but add ALOT of vibration .
Thanks man I really appreciate this info. Couple things:
  • Added the Kiggly HLA - thats huge, thank you!
  • Motor mounts I am replacing just because they look awful. I actually just got OEM ones for the two sides and front. I think that should be good. I don't plan on tracking this and dont want vibrations at all.
  • Studs are already installed so I will probably just keep them and hope for the best. I am at the mercy of the PO hoping it was done correctly. I called the shop that did it and they seem really legit so im not too worried, thankfully.
  • Really interesting about the MHI housing. I spoke with FP at length about this and they seemed pretty gung ho on their setup for my power goals, but maybe didn't think much about my torque / spool characteristic goals. Maybe this is something the tuner can work with. I will probably start with their housing and go from there because I already ordered it a couple weeks ago.
  • The fuel pump / injectors were at the tuner recommendation sub 425 whp so I think it will be right on the cusp. Does the fuel pump you mentioned require any cutting / modification? I REALLY like that the 255 was just drop in. Made it so easy. I was extremely adverse to modifying the housing at all but if its going to make that significant of a difference, maybe it's something I will just have to suck up and do. I will look into that boost pump right away.

THANK YOU!!!!
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Old Feb 28, 2023 | 10:18 AM
  #52  
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From: FL
Originally Posted by BRW21
Thanks man I really appreciate this info. Couple things:
  • Added the Kiggly HLA - thats huge, thank you!
  • Motor mounts I am replacing just because they look awful. I actually just got OEM ones for the two sides and front. I think that should be good. I don't plan on tracking this and dont want vibrations at all.
  • Studs are already installed so I will probably just keep them and hope for the best. I am at the mercy of the PO hoping it was done correctly. I called the shop that did it and they seem really legit so im not too worried, thankfully.
  • Really interesting about the MHI housing. I spoke with FP at length about this and they seemed pretty gung ho on their setup for my power goals, but maybe didn't think much about my torque / spool characteristic goals. Maybe this is something the tuner can work with. I will probably start with their housing and go from there because I already ordered it a couple weeks ago.
  • The fuel pump / injectors were at the tuner recommendation sub 425 whp so I think it will be right on the cusp. Does the fuel pump you mentioned require any cutting / modification? I REALLY like that the 255 was just drop in. Made it so easy. I was extremely adverse to modifying the housing at all but if its going to make that significant of a difference, maybe it's something I will just have to suck up and do. I will look into that boost pump right away.

THANK YOU!!!!
No problem!
I assumed you were talking about aftermarket mounts. OEM mounts are nice but a front "roll stopper" is worthwhile with more power or quick shifting IMO.
No worries on the studs, should be fine. A few people developed oil leaks over the years from swapping bolts with the head on the car but its not common.
Totally understand where you are coming from. Give the SS housing a shot, its still going to transform the car. The OEM manifold and twin scroll turbine housing were designed for low/mid range grunt. Sadly Tuning won't be able to make up that difference below 4500 or so.
IIRC my 2.0 MHI red made 430whp @23psi. 450whp@25 psi and 500whp at 28-30psi. E85 fuel/stock cams. An MHI Red or SS housing will easily make 450-550whp so having the fuel to do it is nice. That way you can do the tuning once and not have to revisit the fuel maps later.
The 255 shouldn't require any modification to fit. Adding a boost a pump is easy. A hobbs switch gets a vaccum source for boost signal. Then wired into the BAP and fuel pump.

Some people also go to the walbro 450 274 pump but it does require cutting and modification. Wiring would need to be addressed because that pump pulls alot of amps. You would also need an external regulator for it. There is a way to conserve the factory low/high voltage but it complicates things.

You may already know this but before the tuning session a fresh set of spark plugs gapped at .019 , a boost leak test and all vacuum lines ziptied would be advantageous. Your tuner should be able to walk you thru logging the wide band and ecu flash stuff. An overly rich condition can foul plugs and worst case dilute the oil.

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