Well stated as usual Jack. I'm sick of this thread too - it's outdated by far!

 

i see what you're sayin' jack... but you know that the japanese KNOW what they're doin' when they wanna make a sports car and slappin' a luxery v8 into one of their sporty cars isn't how they do it... this is my only point... it's action driven for the wrong purpose, wrong only to me cuz i hate soft cars.

sigh... if you think slappin' any ol v8 makes a car a winner then i don't get it. good example is the ls1... race proven, race built engine, yeah they make lots of them nad they don't make 'em like they should but it has gobs of overengeering (potential).

no car in stock form is anywhere near perfect. it's the additional work you can put into it in order to make it a champion that counts.

lux v8s don't rev high they're heavy they don't make good power numbers for what they are and their designs don't offer good headroom to do what can be done with an alternate route. i have no problem with well sorted cars like the m series, they have a goal, naturally aspirated power, and they make loads of it... with good efficiency and they have headroom for improvement and those pieces of equiptment last all day long wtih beating.

 

You obviously don't know much about these engines to think their just "Lux" v8's.. Production v8's don't generally rev very high, they produce torque.. Their heavier than a 2 liter 4 cylinder, but these aluminum engines are much lighter than many older engines. Their conservatively tuned for a reason. Many of these v8 engines were directly derived from race programs...

Also, the IS430 concept was done by Rod Millen as a proof of concept for Lexus USA, and was intended for the american market anyway.

And I don't think slapping a v8 in any old car makes it a winner, however I do understand the american market pretty well, and many would prefer a big engine in a small car, that goes fast in a straight line, if it also handles well, its icing on the cake. Do I feel that way, well, no I prefer a car that handles well before its fast. But making a car that handles well is about engineering, swapping an aluminum v8 in place of a similar weight inline 6 is a smart move. There's only about 100# more on the nose of the car. Ruining the balance of a well engineered car is wrong, unless the engineering is also taking that into account. That car will also handle better than the original IS300, it will likely get some nice suspension mods and a few other things.

What about the other cars, the Corvette handles well, has a nice V8.. There are many more exotic cars that have gotten v8's, v10's and v12's.. Just because something is a turbocharged 4 cylinder doesn't make it any lighter, faster, or better balanced than any other well engineered car...

Although I own japanese cars, and like japanese cars, I'm not so blinded by "JDM" to think that everything they do is better than something else. I also understand that its about the package, regardless of the country, you can have winners and losers in any platform, or market.

They don't WANT to make a sports car, they want to SELL CARS TO BUYERS.. if its a sport compact with a 2 liter engine, a sport sedan with a 4.3 liter v8, or a rocket with an exotic v12, they will make it because they can sell it.

 

no see that's the thing you're just saying that i don't know about engines and then you go and agree with me. yes the production v8s don't rev high, i said that. yes the ls1 doesn't rev that high stock but it CAN, that's what i was talking about with the overengineering aspect.

and then you go and say it's all about the american market and that's what i've been saying all along. it IS about the american market, it's about selling MORE cars and competing with MORE companies and getting MORE market share. it's not about motorsports or a car that was built for motorsports from the ground up.

adding 100 pounds on the nose is bad and it's not hard for them to turbo charge the is300 cuz they've done it with the supra and the is200 in japan is turbocharged standard.

now why do you go and make a comment about jdm? am i not advocating the ls1 engine and did i not mention many pages back that i am highly anticipating the shorter lighter ls7 powered c6 z06? if ANYTHING i'm saying the "jdm" way that toyota is going with the is is WRONG, BAD, falling off the motorsports religion.

and that's all i was saying... you concluded it nicely... it's not about sports cars... it's about what can sell to what i would consider a sea of sheep, who are on a, like you said, drag racing mentality.

 

i would say GT-R35

 

Mazda speed edition supposidly mazda engineers making a AWD turbo charged 2.3L 4 banger that is supposed to be producing 270Hp and around 280 torque. But then i did some research and it isnt that fast wonder why??

 

That's just the Mazdaspeed 6. Otherwise known as the MP6 or MPZ. It's just the Mazda6 with some upgrades, bigger rims, different suspension, navigation option, and the engine you spoke of (I believe less torque though). It's more of a speedy luxury attempt - going after the Subie Forester I believe.
The power increase isn't very much considering all the added weight it had, so it's not really fast compared to say the Evo.

 

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...er=mazdaSpeed6

It's heavy, intended for the normal commuter with a little flair for being a step above, so it won't be incredibly agile. It's geared for cruising, so it's not intended to be quick. I'm sure it has a top speed limiter, maybe not even as high as 155, so it's not going to be fast. It's a FWD car that under *some* conditions can send up to 50% of its torque to the rear wheels, so it's not well suited for "driving" all the time. It looks like it's brakes may be quite basic as well. It is good to see it coming though, and kinda of scary it's the most powerful Mazda so far..

 

Mazda's been bitten pretty hard by the press recently as the Miata and RX-8 didn't end up making what was advertised before production. I imagine they're being a little conservative with both the power rating and the performance numbers to avoid a repeat of what happened before, which ended up with some offers to buy customer cars back. It's not an Evo competitor, but my guess is they'll sell a lot more of them here since it's got broader appeal. It's really more like the 2nd generation (2000-2001.5) Audi S4 in terms of profile and performance. I would say its competition is almost directly the Legacy GT rather than the Forester. With loads of goodies (such as leather, and an optional nav system) they shouldn't have any trouble moving the cars at the price that they want.

It's not easy to make an Evo competitor, I was just watching TopGear and noticed that the FQ330 was faster than a C6 Vette on the same track, so most companies don't try. There just aren't that many potential buyers AND it would cost a ton in R&D to even make something competitive. Mitsubishi and Subaru have a head start in this market.

 

USDM 2.5 liter esX STi. 425hp stock from the factory. Will be available this summer 2005.11.90 1/4mile stock.

 

Nissan Skyline!!

 

i vote for Elise. Nice HP low weight, mid engine, and small as ****, makes this car an awesome challenger to the Evo on twisty tracks.

 

yea the mazdaspeed 6 is in the new Gran Turismo, and it runs high 14s in the 1/4 mile. Not very impressive.

 

RWD, too expensive and its not 4 doors.... the evo is a sedan with decent amount of room, awd for those nasty weathers and cost 30 grand... i dont think elise has the same appeal.

 

I absolutely LOVE the Elise.....ever since it came out, even with the Rover 1.8 engines.


But I'll have to agree that it appeals to a diff. group of car enthusiasts and won't be considered a direct competition to the Evo....