Coilovers or New struts and springs?
Jul 4, 2010, 02:09 PM
#61
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^ Unlike you, though, Smike's bias is based on hard numbers, not 'feel'. I'm glad you like your car with the Megans ... in the end that's really all that matters, isn't it? No need to be all sour grapes, though, just because your car is now slower...
l8r)
l8r)
Jul 4, 2010, 03:32 PM
#62
No sour grapes on my part, just don't understand the abrupt bashing of the Megan Coilover setup when he previously reported to the forum they are "a good entry level coil-over....These performed very well for me and I got much praise from my instructors." So I used the search function and found this....
I think people can make up their own minds at this point. I will update my results once the new setup is installed.
Back to the suspensions: I am speaking from first hand experiences here, observations, and comparisons. I will have track runs to compare to as soon as the season starts back up. Fear not – I will be updating this thread when I have that information for everyone. Please use my thoughts and findings as you see fit.
Megan Tracks 12k/10k
I found these to be a good entry level coil-over for those, like me, that want to get out there in the local auto-cross or HPDE events. These preformed very well for me and I had much praise from my instructors (some of whom are Porsche GT3 drivers – not only the car but the GT series) to how the car felt and reacted on the track. They had tons of adjustability and adaptability for racing.
Downsides: very stiff – can led to internal bleeding, irritability, and nagability (girlfriends, wives, family members, pets…). Michigan winters are very harsh, with lots of snow and road salt. I didn’t want to expose the car to the elements and I did have a winter car for a few seasons.
Megan Tracks 12k/10k
I found these to be a good entry level coil-over for those, like me, that want to get out there in the local auto-cross or HPDE events. These preformed very well for me and I had much praise from my instructors (some of whom are Porsche GT3 drivers – not only the car but the GT series) to how the car felt and reacted on the track. They had tons of adjustability and adaptability for racing.
Downsides: very stiff – can led to internal bleeding, irritability, and nagability (girlfriends, wives, family members, pets…). Michigan winters are very harsh, with lots of snow and road salt. I didn’t want to expose the car to the elements and I did have a winter car for a few seasons.
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Jul 4, 2010 at 05:39 PM.
Jul 6, 2010, 04:47 PM
#64
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Now for something completely different: If you had Swift Sports on MR Bilsteins would you upgrade them to Swift Spec-R's and if so, would you get the Bilsteins revalved or just get Bilstein HDs?
Jul 6, 2010, 05:52 PM
#65
Correct, when I sold them I swapped them for their new owner. I will give it to Megan, they at least changed the street rates to reflect the car better. And they are represented here by a handful of vendors.
Now, once I really got into suspensions, I found that they were not at the same level that other setups could offer. And its not only me, Swift/GTWorx have a well founded base of happy owners and drivers.
If you are doing what I did by going from the Sports to SpecRs -- if a DD. Just run them on the Bilsteins. If for racing, send them out for revalving. That is still a coil-over setup, minus height and reb/comp adjustments. Both are done for you by Swift and then dialed completely in with the custom valved Bilsteins.
Either Bilstein (MR or HD) is good to start with. The HDs are firmer out of the box. And with Bilstein, I would get them anyway you can. With Bilsteins limited and rare production, as-well-as the dwindling amount of Bilstein MRs out there - they might as well be Astatine.
Now, once I really got into suspensions, I found that they were not at the same level that other setups could offer. And its not only me, Swift/GTWorx have a well founded base of happy owners and drivers.
If you are doing what I did by going from the Sports to SpecRs -- if a DD. Just run them on the Bilsteins. If for racing, send them out for revalving. That is still a coil-over setup, minus height and reb/comp adjustments. Both are done for you by Swift and then dialed completely in with the custom valved Bilsteins.
Either Bilstein (MR or HD) is good to start with. The HDs are firmer out of the box. And with Bilstein, I would get them anyway you can. With Bilsteins limited and rare production, as-well-as the dwindling amount of Bilstein MRs out there - they might as well be Astatine.
Jul 10, 2010, 02:08 PM
#66
I received the Megan Street setup as well as the matching H&R bars on Friday. I installed the rear sway bar as well as coil overs in the rear without much issue. For those doing this for the first time, make sure you drop the rear swing arms in order to be able to install the sway bar. I will also say the mounts are very tricky to get the bolts realigned when mounting the new sway bar brackets to the car.
For the rear coil overs I had to install a single washer on the swing arm where the coil over mounts. Without the washer the bolt/nut was compressing the end of the coil over. I will try to take some pictures. This may be something that needs to be addressed by Megan as this should be a snug fit without the addition of a washer.
Once it is all set I will take pictures of the measurements for those who want a reference for how to initially adjust the height. This will include the measurement from the spring perch adjustment to the height locking adjustment as well as the corresponding measurement from the ground to the bottom on the fender.
I just finished installing the front coil overs, but still have to drop the subframe in order to install the front sway bar as well as the Whiteline precision steering kit. It is definitely a two day job, but not something you can't tackle on your own if you don't mind laying on our back and have the necessary tools.
For the rear coil overs I had to install a single washer on the swing arm where the coil over mounts. Without the washer the bolt/nut was compressing the end of the coil over. I will try to take some pictures. This may be something that needs to be addressed by Megan as this should be a snug fit without the addition of a washer.
Once it is all set I will take pictures of the measurements for those who want a reference for how to initially adjust the height. This will include the measurement from the spring perch adjustment to the height locking adjustment as well as the corresponding measurement from the ground to the bottom on the fender.
I just finished installing the front coil overs, but still have to drop the subframe in order to install the front sway bar as well as the Whiteline precision steering kit. It is definitely a two day job, but not something you can't tackle on your own if you don't mind laying on our back and have the necessary tools.
Jul 10, 2010, 02:27 PM
#67
The rear sway bar bracket is tough because it has an inner/outer bracket that must both be used. Aligning the holes of the inner bracket with the outer bracket is tough because you are really pressing firm on the bushing that surrounds the sway bar. A small c-clamp works well to press the inner bracket towards the sway bar. After this, I had to use a series of clamps to make the holes align so I could get the bolts started. Yes, I scratched my pretty sway bar in the process.
No need for the Perrin stout mounts with these sway bar brackets.
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Jul 10, 2010 at 05:53 PM.
Jul 11, 2010, 04:37 PM
#68
Today was a fun day doing the front sway bar and Whiteline precision steering kit. We dropped the front subframe and had to disconnect the power steering lines. We chose to lower the subframe a few inches and then pinched off the low pressure line by the rack. Then just removed the clip and hose. I removed the high pressure line from the rack instead of up top, which did not require that you snake the hose from above. I added a pic below to show where you loosen the 22mm banjo bolt.
For the steering linkage this is very easy. From the inside of the car attach vice grips to the clamp and mark the rod with a paint pen. When the rack is lowered it just pulls out with no problem. You will have to look in your foot well to see what I mean. I didn't want to pop the tie rod ends because I was afraid I would rip the boot so I just unscrewed them. Once the rack was out the easy work began.
We then pressed out the old bushing for the new Whiteline precision steering kit.
We then reassembled the rack.
You notice in the above pic the steering wheel shaft is still attached to the rack. When you raise the subframe back into place make sure you realign the paint pen marks and the shaft just slides back into the female coupler. Release the vice grips off the clamp and you are done.
I had to order a new tire so the car is running the spare, but initial drive at least indicates the front end knock was caused by a bad stock strut. I will update on Thursday after the new tire arrives, car is aligned and driven hard.
For the steering linkage this is very easy. From the inside of the car attach vice grips to the clamp and mark the rod with a paint pen. When the rack is lowered it just pulls out with no problem. You will have to look in your foot well to see what I mean. I didn't want to pop the tie rod ends because I was afraid I would rip the boot so I just unscrewed them. Once the rack was out the easy work began.
We then pressed out the old bushing for the new Whiteline precision steering kit.
We then reassembled the rack.
You notice in the above pic the steering wheel shaft is still attached to the rack. When you raise the subframe back into place make sure you realign the paint pen marks and the shaft just slides back into the female coupler. Release the vice grips off the clamp and you are done.
I had to order a new tire so the car is running the spare, but initial drive at least indicates the front end knock was caused by a bad stock strut. I will update on Thursday after the new tire arrives, car is aligned and driven hard.
Jul 12, 2010, 11:10 AM
#69
Took a few more pictures and made some additional adjustments. I wanted to show the gap in the Megan Rear Coil over where it attaches to the swing arm. I went to the hardware store and purchase a pack of 7/16" stainless washers to fit over the 12mm bolt. I chose a standard washer as it fits the metric bolt very tight. This single washer fills the gap nicely. Please look at the picture below to see the gap.
For those who want to get an idea for how to set the initial height I took some pictures and measurements. Please see below the rear measurement. This assumes the spring perch is lightly snugged against the spring before locking. The 3-1/8" measurement is inside to inside.
I don't have a picture of the front, but the gap between perch lock and height lock is 1-5/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-3/4". Finally, below is a picture of how the car sits.
For those who want to get an idea for how to set the initial height I took some pictures and measurements. Please see below the rear measurement. This assumes the spring perch is lightly snugged against the spring before locking. The 3-1/8" measurement is inside to inside.
I don't have a picture of the front, but the gap between perch lock and height lock is 1-5/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-3/4". Finally, below is a picture of how the car sits.
Jul 12, 2010, 03:41 PM
#70
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Ok, finally got a chance to track my new suspension setup this weekend at the Autobahn Country Club's south track. All I can say is that I am extremely happy with the setup so far!! First time tracking the car on R-comps (BFG R1), and I was worried about how well the Bilstein/Swift Spec-R combo would handle them ... turns out all my worries were for naught. The suspension handled the R-comps without any major issues.
Relevant Details:
2003 Evo VIII
OEM
front LSD
TRE Rear diff
Bilstein HD struts
Swift Spec-R springs
Whiteline FRCK
Whiteline front swaybar links
Perrin PSRS
AMS Rear trailing arm bushings
BFG R1 (265/35R18) tires
H&R front swaybar, set to soft setting
Stock rear swaybar
Alignment: -2F/-1.3R camber, 0 toe
Using this setup, the car was almost completely neutral, with slight corner entry understeer ... nothing that couldn't be corrected with trail braking. Pretty much any corner went like this: trail brake into the corner, aim for the apex, WOT @ apex ... rinse and repeat.
I have a Works rear swaybar standing by to be installed and will try to have it installed by the next track day. With only slight corner entry understeer on the stock RSB, I will probably start the Works bar at its softest setting and see how it goes.
The Bilstein/Swift combo worked very well, allowing me to take lines that I could not hold with the stock KYB setup, as the KYB's had a tendency to skitter over uneven pavement. All-in-all the most fun I've had in my car in a long while.
l8r)
Relevant Details:
2003 Evo VIII
OEM
front LSDTRE Rear diff
Bilstein HD struts
Swift Spec-R springs
Whiteline FRCK
Whiteline front swaybar links
Perrin PSRS
AMS Rear trailing arm bushings
BFG R1 (265/35R18) tires
H&R front swaybar, set to soft setting
Stock rear swaybar
Alignment: -2F/-1.3R camber, 0 toe
Using this setup, the car was almost completely neutral, with slight corner entry understeer ... nothing that couldn't be corrected with trail braking. Pretty much any corner went like this: trail brake into the corner, aim for the apex, WOT @ apex ... rinse and repeat.
I have a Works rear swaybar standing by to be installed and will try to have it installed by the next track day. With only slight corner entry understeer on the stock RSB, I will probably start the Works bar at its softest setting and see how it goes.
The Bilstein/Swift combo worked very well, allowing me to take lines that I could not hold with the stock KYB setup, as the KYB's had a tendency to skitter over uneven pavement. All-in-all the most fun I've had in my car in a long while.
l8r)
Jul 12, 2010, 06:01 PM
#72
You can't go wrong with both MR Bilsteins or a set of Stance GR+ Pro. Personally I'd go with a set of Stance GR+ Pro just for the adjustability. I will be tracking it a couple times a year but not enough where it'll be crucial for me to have a set of MR Bilsteins over Stance coils.
Jul 12, 2010, 07:12 PM
#74
Before the rack was lowered I came in from the driver's side by the cv axle. A deep 14mm socket connected to a swivel connected to two 12" extensions. I then used a breaker bar. Took just a few minutes and was reinstalled using the same method.
Jul 14, 2010, 01:55 PM
#75
I wanted to provide a quick update. I drove the car about 20 miles before getting the alignment to make sure the suspension had settled so I could verify consistent fender height from L-R. The suspension settled a bit so I had some new dimensions.
FRONT: Gap between perch lock and height lock is 1-5/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-1/2".
REAR: Gap between perch lock and height lock is 3-1/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-1/8".
I was able to dial in the alignment to the following specs.
FRONT: -2deg camber and 0deg toe
REAR: -1.7deg camber and 0.08deg toe
I wanted to run -1.5deg camber in the rear, but because of the drop I maxed out the toe adjustment. Therefore, I had to run -1.7deg camber to allow for proper toe adjustment in the rear.
My initial feedback is positive. If you had ridden around on worn struts anything feels like an improvement. I set the front dampening 7 clicks off full firm and the rear dampening 11 clicks off full firm. The car doesn't feel too stiff with those settings, but I want to drive it for a week before I make an changes so I have a good reference The car feels very stable thus far and I have only put it through moderate paces taking corners at 35mph and such.
I have a good buddy local who is very knowledgeable regarding suspension setups. He drives an EVO IX MR that using the KW V3, H&R bars and other bushing upgrades. I am going to have him push it hard to get his perspective and will report back results. Anyway, so far so good.
I did contact Megan regarding the gap in the rear coilover and the fact I had to add the washer. They stated this should not be the case and that if I could provide the dimension of the rear swing arm they would send me a spare set of attachments as warranty spares in case something were to happen at a later date.
FRONT: Gap between perch lock and height lock is 1-5/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-1/2".
REAR: Gap between perch lock and height lock is 3-1/8" (inside to inside) giving a ground to fender height of 24-1/8".
I was able to dial in the alignment to the following specs.
FRONT: -2deg camber and 0deg toe
REAR: -1.7deg camber and 0.08deg toe
I wanted to run -1.5deg camber in the rear, but because of the drop I maxed out the toe adjustment. Therefore, I had to run -1.7deg camber to allow for proper toe adjustment in the rear.
My initial feedback is positive. If you had ridden around on worn struts anything feels like an improvement. I set the front dampening 7 clicks off full firm and the rear dampening 11 clicks off full firm. The car doesn't feel too stiff with those settings, but I want to drive it for a week before I make an changes so I have a good reference The car feels very stable thus far and I have only put it through moderate paces taking corners at 35mph and such.
I have a good buddy local who is very knowledgeable regarding suspension setups. He drives an EVO IX MR that using the KW V3, H&R bars and other bushing upgrades. I am going to have him push it hard to get his perspective and will report back results. Anyway, so far so good.
I did contact Megan regarding the gap in the rear coilover and the fact I had to add the washer. They stated this should not be the case and that if I could provide the dimension of the rear swing arm they would send me a spare set of attachments as warranty spares in case something were to happen at a later date.