I will have to disagree. If ECUFlash for the X follows suit right behind the IX/VIII noone will use the ECUTek stuff to tune the X. They simply would not make any money. Who would pay licensing fees to something that in time will have far less options and no enduser abilities.

There may be tuners that say oh well Im sticking with ECUTek and refuse to tune ECUFlash. So be it. They will not be making any money tuning X's in the near future thats for sure and will be forced to use the freeware at a competative tunig price or the cars owner will simply use guys like 4WS, Shameless, Mellon, KD. Who all offer the best tuning you can possibly get for your car

You are being showed whats happening, learning how to log and getting the most, safest power squeezed out of your machine.

I believe anyone who owns and mods these cars 100% needs to be able to log and monitor things like knock, AFR, Fuel trims, etc and make adjustments even if it is with the help of somone else

 

The good thing about open source programming is that if your a good enough tuner, people will STILL bring you their cars to be tuned. open source tuning differentiates good tuners from great tuners. its not like every single person tunes their own car. I know a good 100 evo owners in the NY area and less then 5 tune their own cars. If your that good at what you do, it doesnt hurt business.

And as far as money putting towards updates and such, look at ECUFLASH now. Look at the tephra mods. people are taking it way further then ecutek ever did. I dont think ecutek is a superior tuning tool, I think they were first just like last time and the people who dont mind paying a little extra to be the first tuned which is fine too.

I dont think ecutek is gonna see an immediate hault of licenses being purchased, but I do think it will die down and in 2009 you wont see many people being tuned with Ecutek

 

It's easy to be the "best" when there is nothing else out yet to compare it to.

We are discussing Evos, here on this Evo board.

Being first out of the gate rarely means it's always the best.

And congrats, you totally missed my point. Although you did prove my point on that history repeats itself, as you did the same whining the last time around.

 

You seem to be implying that ECUFlash uses hardware, software, or some concept stolen from ECUTek. None of these are true, and IMHO, your post should be deleted.

- What hardware could be stolen? - There are tons of hardware geeks out there that take it as a challenge (or do it for a living) to figure out how to gain access to the programming of embedded controllers like ECUs. People have been doing this sort of thing for other types of embedded controllers for many years already.

- Stolen software? - ECUFlash is just a spiffed up hex editor that has programming for reading and writing to the ECU. That programming to read/write to the ECU would have been deduced by the process of learning how to gain access to the ECU.

- Stolen tables? - There is nothing magical about reverse engineering the Evo ROM to understand how the ECU programming works. There have been professional tools available for disassembly for many years, and anyone who has any proficiency in computer languages can reverse engineer the ECU programming and figure out exactly how it works. Heck, Renesas has all the documentation for the Evo 7/8/9 and Evo X ECU on their website for free, including the ECU programming language.

ECUFlash for the Evo X is going to be no different, and really, what's the chance of ECUFlash being able to "steal" what they need again to be able to gain access to the Evo X ROM???

 

Unfortunately the average Evo owner will not have the luxury of having a shop let them use the software and hardware they paid for to map their own car's. Ecutek have any logging capabilities available or in the works for the Evo owner? It seems to me like the dedicated people that develop and continue to develop Ecuflash have done so much more for the Evo community that Ecutek. I wonder if that will change with the X ?

 

The posts calling EcuTeK overpriced were not deleted. Neither will Al's post be deleted, because he has a valid point. Of course it is not the same software of hardware, but the interface is super close.

Do you honestly believe that EcuTeK's design had nothing to do with the initial building of the Ecuflash program user interface? Even the collapsable ROM metadata tables in Ecuflash are identical to EcuTeK. The Cobb interface is completely different, because it is their own.

Nobody has bothered to answer my question about active tracing. Does Ecuflash have this now? Does Ecuflash have its own logger integrated so I don't have to start another program to log?

 

Does ecutek have a open-ended logger so you can customize the logging items? Custom calculations based on multiple logged items? Can you add custom log parameters? Can customers and/or end users use this logger to log their own cars?

The live tracing/ real-time is great on the ecutek/cobb, but means very little to end users when they do not have access to it.

What ever happened to the promise of DeltaDash for end-users?

 

Since I'm not a shop, I have not messed with the customer version of Delta Dash, and don't know what all it can do. I would assume that any logging software that is CAN compatible will work. I used the shop's version of EcuTeK to log the car on the dyno as well as the street, and am really satisfied with the results.

I'm not knocking Ecuflash for a DIY guy, but as it was said earlier, that is a really low percentage of owners.

I think its good that there are multiple products available to people, and the end user can choose what he/she wants. But I don't think a one time $300 license fee is as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

 

I agree with this. People make way too much of a big deal about this when it pertains to EcuTek.

 

Where did you see Delta Dash was coming for the X? If it does it would really improve their product in general.

 

From my perspective they are all tools, we get all the tools so we have as many options to work with as possible.

Al

 

the good tuner will always have a job. it is clear for everybody, who tunes 100 cars is better then who does hes own and maybe his body's .
Not to mention the good customer service. And clear hp gains ,since you do it on the dyno at the tuners. On the road you will not know your whp and wtq gain numbers. Wich is for some is very important.

 

1) This is a moot issue, because Ecuflash does not even have an internal logger at all.
2) Give me an example, please.
3) No. But I sure haven't needed to on my mild bolt-on X. If I get in deeper, and would need to marry data, I'd build formulas on paper and figure it out as I needed to. Anything complex could be requested of EcuTeK to add into the software.
4) No. So that comes to this: What percentage of tuned Evo owners actually log their own car? Self-tuned with a Tactrix cable, I would say nearly 100%. Tuned by a shop, I would say closer to 10%. If you know how to properly read everything in a log, chances are you can probably self-tune your car.
5) Delta Dash on the CT9A, I don't know. I have never mapped an VIII or IX in EcuTeK, only Ecuflash. Delta Dash for the X would be something to ask EcuTeK themselves if the end user was really interested in having it.

These products aren't intended for the same thing! A DIY guy would not use EcuTeK if he can't tune it himself, and a shop that has a customer who wants his car tuned properly right now is going to sell him EcuTek because its complete, it works great, and its available as I am typing this.

So it cost me $300 to be an early adopter. I have been back several times already since I have changed things on the car. That license is mine, and I can reflash this car until the wheels fall off on that license.

 

good job on the ecuflash, why pay $350 when you dont have to? Im sure ecutek has some advantages but $350 worth.........I dont think so!

 

I'm kinda confused. Above, What Delta Dash are you talking about? Don't believe it's availble for the 8/9's?

Not really a moot point. I log my car very often even though I don't tune it myself. It's nice to know when the season's, weather changes your car's running safely and as it should. Tuning correctly is a little more intensive than learning how to read logs.