Calling something overpriced is kinda common. People say it about all kinds things (e.g. gas prices), and there's no slander or harm in it. But to call something stolen goes a bit further. I've never had a good look at the ECUTek interface, so I can't make a judgment on how similar ECUFlash looks to it. Does the similarity in the interface give the right to imply that the entire ECUFlash program and hardware (the cable) is based on ECUTek software/hardware? Is it possible that the only company in the world that could figure how to gain access to an ECU is ECUTek? Really, its not that hard. I'm all for a good discussion, but seriously, this goes beyond complaining about high prices.

 

The end consumer Delta Dash I used was on a WRX. I have never used EcuTeK for the 8s and 9s.

If you can understand the logs, I bet you aren't too far from self tuning. I agree that season changes would require some logging or checking, particularly if you aren't using a good method of repeatable boost control or have some type of correctly tuned boost correction map for a safety net.

I agree with the last bit 100%. My car sees the dyno at least once a season, lots more lately.

 

Nowhere did I imply the entire program or the cable was exactly the same as EcuTeK. I've seen/used them both, and I know better.

The interface, however, is frighteningly similar.

 

I wasn't referring to your statement.

 

I've never seen the EcuTeK interface first hand, but I have used Ecuflash.

I don't know the complete history of both applications, but from my experience in writing code for UI's and the code below the UI, the interfaces can be the same but the code below can be complete different.

Take a quick look at say Firefox vs. Internet Explorer, Firefox started out with tabs, then it was added to IE (even the keystrokes to launch a new tab are the same). So for one instance the UI between the two are the same, they produce the same end result visually, but the code underneath the UI can be drastically different.

If the user interface is good, and data is presented to the user in a way that makes it easy to use and understand why is it an issue that they look similar?

 

After requests and a point from another moderator, I have removed the part of Al's statement that caused the ruckus. I did leave part of it intact in post #35, which is Mrfred's complete rebuttal.

In Al's defense, I know for 100% fact that he has tuned with both and knows that the hardware is not identical, and owns both cables, and they look nothing alike. If he wants to come back in and explain further, that is up to him.

Regarding the actual software, I personally cannot make a stand one way or the other: Its out of my field of expertise and I have no proof.

But in reference to the interface, he has an ironclad point: Why does Ecuflash look almost identical to EcuTeK? Surely a couple of you Ecuflash gurus who have been doing this since the first Tactrix cable shipped know the answer to this question?

 

If you've seen both programs open, you'd know this point is a little off. Firefox is pretty similar to IE in appearance. Ecuflash windows are more like identical twins to EcuTeK windows; this is not slander, it is a fact that is apparently much less known than I ever thought. And in this particular case, history records that the chicken came before the egg.

 

I don't get why people are so hung up on the $350 license either. In the grand scheme of this hobby, $350 is virtually nothing. I would be more than happy to spend $350 on a package that allowed me to flash my own ECU in a DIY manner. DIY products for other vehicles (HPTuners for LSx's, SCTuner for Fords, etc) sell for twice $350, and they sell huge amounts of licenses and software product.

I also have no issue with paying someone who has lots of experience to provide a base tune, which I can refine little by little later on. However, Ecutek offers no such product, and thier support of the shop based customers only is going to drive down thier US revenues once the DIY based product comes out, only because of the nature of the US consumer. The price difference is going to end up being irrelevant, it's the nature of the US consumer that will choose DIY access and scalability over barred access. The sooner Ecutek realizes this and comes out with a second product line that allows access, the better off they will be in the USA. I used to work for a British company, and from a marketing standpoint, Brits and Europeans typically want complete engineered systems and functional packages, while Americans want to piece things together out of components as they see fit. These are two completely different philosophies which require completely different product offerings to fill two completely different markets.

I guess I'm rambling, I'll stop.

 

Since when did ECUTek patent their gui?

 

Delta Dash is the best logging application for stock ecus period.

It already works on the Evo X and has proven to be very useful along with the other features such as live map tracing, etc.

I have a totally open mind to use what ever tools are available to provide a service to my customer.

In the past I have purchased ALL the Evo tuning tools that are made available - e.g. Tech Tom, Ecutek, Cobb Access Port this way no matter what my customer chooses I have the option available to take care of their needs.

Remember created the ecu - all the tuning tools do is provide a interface to communicate with and adjust the factory maps. No one is creating new maps or new means of operation (yet). Therefore, the end result is the same provided the tool used is able to access all functions and works in a reliable and consistant manner.

Al

 

All I can say on the subject is when EcuFlash came out initially it was nearly identical to Ecutek as far as the maps covered and the apperance of the set up.

I was told that a Ecutek dealer co-operated in the set of of the initial EcuFlash and that information was confirmed by that former dealer to my face.

Obviously the Ecuflash project has gone well beyond what was originally offered with the assitsance of many individuals.

At the end of the day its all a moot issue of who did what to whom.

I will say that I appreciate Ecutek's continued efforts to support the US market with excelent tuning tools and to continue to invest in a world class product. The fact that the business model they established (dealer network and license fees) is not appealing to certain people does not mean that they do not offer a excelent product at a fair price.

HKS V Pro for example uses a similar dealer only tuning model and it also is a amazing product which suits the needs of certain end users who do not desire to do self tuning.

Obviously for a self tuner Ecutek is not a good fit as a product unless they purchase the application.

I remind others that when I first got into ecu flashing on my Evo it was not intended as a business - I bought the Tech Tom equipment just to use on my own car and possibly help to recover some of the cost by tuning my freind's evos. Years later, I am still at it. Best $5,000 I ever spent.

Al

 

Times are rough and people are watching their pennies.

Even still as of right now we are using Ecutek only on the evo 10.

To be honest the cost of the license is a non issue. $750 for a tune with dyno time isn't bad considering the gains in HP/$ being greater than practically any other single mod.

You have $35k to buy the car but don't have $750 to get it tuned properly, doesn't make sense to me.

Self tuners I don't worry about, they can take care of themselves, and have no need to come to Iveytune.

Let's see what happens but I love the glitch free, simple and concise approach the Ecutek evo 10 SW offers, have done a few of the cars and the results are good.

A glitch free tool like this is worth it's weight in gold as it enables you to concentrate on tuning.



Sean

 

You answered yourself. Times are rough. Sure I bought a $35k car but do I have to spend $750 more on something that could be less? Let's say I pay half ... thats $375 towards say ... a short ram intake.

just my thoughts

 

Are you kidding?? $350 is a huge deal! Do you think someone is going to pay that much, plus the price for an OBD2 cable, to be able to change their rev limiters and make simple chages to their tune? Are they going to pay that much to be able to have a race gas map and a pump gas map that they can upload themselves?

NO.

I can understand the higher price initially, while they are the only option available, but as more options become available that price will kill their market share. Now, if they drop the price to say $100 per license as more tuning options become available, and allow end users to purchase the license so they can change maps freely, then they will be a strong competitor with ecuflash in the years to come.

BUT, if ecuflash stays free and evolves as to have MORE options available as in the EVO8-9 platform, ecutek will fade to obscurity until the EVO XI comes out . . .

 

In one year ECUflash will more than likely eclipse ECUtek. The EVO XI will be probably be the same platform as the X. More than likely there will be minor changes, so ECUflash for the X will probably work for the IX. All that is needed is to create new xml files for the newer rom(s).

Mark my words, the tuners who are now using ECUtek and exalting in how great it is, will start using ECUflash in one year from now. No rational customer will want to pay the $350 license fee for ECUtek when ECUflash does the same thing for $350 less.

We have seen this happen with the Evo 8-9. It is very hard to find someone who is willing to pay the license fee to tune their Evo 8-9 when there is no fee to pay with ECUflash.