Notices
Evo X Engine / Turbo / Drivetrain Everything from engine builds to the best clutch and flywheel.

Analyzing a critical engine flaw in the 4b11 by TTP

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 02:25 PM
  #136  
junction's Avatar
Evolving Member
15 Year Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 434
Likes: 1
From: In the Middle of Everywhere
Originally Posted by hollywood_X
I know of at least 10 on the other forum but I can't post the links here so here are their names and thread titles;

Imsoevox - R.I.P...another 4B11 (Related)

legendary_wraps - Big problems.... (Not Related, Detonation.)

KARo7 - Blown engine!!?! (Not related, Overboost)

EvoX08 - Blown Up!!!!! (Not related, overboost w no tune, rods shot through the block)

Rik84 - 2008 Evo X - Engine Blown (Not related, low 3.5 quarts of oil)

nero - evo broke round 2! (Not Related. 1st time: Super low on oil due to a leak.
2.d time: crankshaft is being replaced. minor damage to it caused the rod bearings to start up again.)

Several others over there and if you look these ones up you can look up the other threads posted by the people and most had warning signs ahead. They always start out as higher rpm stutter or cutting out in 5th gear etc. I didn't read back through all of them but I believe these were all a combination of issues topped off by a bad fuel relay.
Hollywood thanks for the info. I have updated the threads u listed as related or unrelated. Only one applies to the issue discussed in this thread.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 02:29 PM
  #137  
love9sick's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
From: Mid-West IL
Originally Posted by dcpatters
It would be interesting to know if the cars affected were early X's; e.g. early build dates.
I have one of the early vins of 08s to roll out. 22000 miles and no really issues other than the crap tune it came with so far. For some reason though I have this gut feeling that I am on borrowed time.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 02:48 PM
  #138  
murlo26's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,119
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
^In other words spend the 20, 30 or 40 bucks (shipping included) and get a new relay!

With a looming issue like the relay one with the 4b11t and the limited amount of cases, it will be very hard to say that even the tight ring gap clearances are the problem i would think. Even if they are very tight. Unless the relay from those cars was tested as good.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 03:03 PM
  #139  
junction's Avatar
Evolving Member
15 Year Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 434
Likes: 1
From: In the Middle of Everywhere
Originally Posted by hollywood_X
Thats what I'm getting at none of them are related and almost all of them in some way lead back to a fuel relay; example the one you mark as related look at these threads he has.

EvoX of course then = forums/showthread.php?t=13445

On 4-18 he posts about having a fuel issue and people tell him "Relay relay"

Now on 5-16 motor blown --> all of them if you look through all their threads you will see the pattern of the same symptoms over and over.
Ill check to see if I have the black FPR. Anyone else want to chime in here with opinions of whether the leaning caused by the bad black FPR would cause this issue with the piston rings?
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 03:10 PM
  #140  
hollywood_X's Avatar
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Meridian, ID
Originally Posted by murlo26
^In other words spend the 20, 30 or 40 bucks (shipping included) and get a new relay!

With a looming issue like the relay one with the 4b11t and the limited amount of cases, it will be very hard to say that even the tight ring gap clearances are the problem i would think. Even if they are very tight. Unless the relay from those cars was tested as good.
Chicken or the egg debating here, in the engineering world its about root cause and the 5 whys. Once you apply that to the ring theory it comes down to;

why are the pistons braking - because the rings expanded
why are they expanding - because they are getting hot
why are they getting hot - because you're running lean
why are you running lean - because your relay is out.
why is your relay out - because its cheap ****
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 03:37 PM
  #141  
Clipse3GT's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,185
Likes: 2
From: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted by hollywood_X
Chicken or the egg debating here, in the engineering world its about root cause and the 5 whys. Once you apply that to the ring theory it comes down to;

why are the pistons braking - because the rings expanded
why are they expanding - because they are getting hot
why are they getting hot - because you're running lean
why are you running lean - because your relay is out.
why is your relay out - because its cheap ****
I kind of like this theory...
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 03:44 PM
  #142  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Thread Starter
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Originally Posted by junction
I have spoken to others on another forum. I can probably say there was a good 6 I have been approached by personally. One guy this happened to twice. Mitsu put in a new short block and it chunked the pistons again not long after. So that guy is on his 3rd motor!
I have heard of that one also.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 05:44 PM
  #143  
lpy2009's Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 333
Likes: 2
From: -
correct me if i'm wrong but what about the FQ400 that UKDM are getting ?

it'll most likely be running the same 4B11T as the rest of the world and it's putting out about 400whp which is around the mark where most of the engine goes kaboom

i mean , like if the FQ400 can do it on the same engine , there should be no reason why there's a limitation to the rest of the world's 4B11T
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:01 PM
  #144  
tephra's Avatar
EvoM Guru
15 Year Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,486
Likes: 67
From: Melbourne, Australia
bhp != whp
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:03 PM
  #145  
murlo26's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,119
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by tephra
bhp != whp
I love the java/c++/all sorts of other types does not equal style, lol.

Not sure people who haven't done programming would understand that.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:05 PM
  #146  
love9sick's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
From: Mid-West IL
It is because it most likely is the fuel pump relay going bad.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:19 PM
  #147  
SiC's Avatar
SiC
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,018
Likes: 0
From: Kanagawa, Japan
Getting a little off topic here but the FQ400 uses a different turbo, pistons, and rods according to a Japanese magazine.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:20 PM
  #148  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Thread Starter
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Originally Posted by SiC
Getting a little off topic here but the FQ400 uses a different turbo, pistons, and rods according to a Japanese magazine.
Different pistons and hence likely different ring end gaps.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:23 PM
  #149  
LESTERH's Avatar
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh
And I'm pretty sure the FQ400 has 400 flywheel HP. So pretty much an X w/ bolt-ons and a tune.
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 06:48 PM
  #150  
lpy2009's Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 333
Likes: 2
From: -
opss mix up the bhp/whp lol

guess the FQ400 is a whole different level , was curious about it , back to OP



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:36 AM.