BBX... Upgraded Oil Lines?
That was posted by GST, not Delkat. I spent a good 10 minutes scrolling through posts by him and didn't find it.
No, the MAF sensor is reading 5 volts and can't read any more. You can fix that by going to a larger MAF housing so it sees less velocity for a given volume of air...or I've been told that its location within the pipe can also alter the velocity that it sees.
If someone knows for sure of an intake that isn't at 5volts at this power level then I'd like to know about it. I'm still working to get a custom 3.5" made but it's easier said than done.
No, the MAF sensor is reading 5 volts and can't read any more. You can fix that by going to a larger MAF housing so it sees less velocity for a given volume of air...or I've been told that its location within the pipe can also alter the velocity that it sees.
If someone knows for sure of an intake that isn't at 5volts at this power level then I'd like to know about it. I'm still working to get a custom 3.5" made but it's easier said than done.
Plus, I recognized his name from the original thread, don't ask me how I remembered that isht.
This is good info though, BBX should last a long time on stock oiling setup; I ran my BBK for 20k miles (pretty hard ones too!) on stock oil lines, no problem!
Sounds like it comes down to the MAF scaling table in the ECU. If you're not restricted on the intake, does it make sense to use a bigger pipe, taking up more space under-hood, when the limitation is in the electronics?
I wonder if you could just tune around this by increasing the scaling without actually increasing the size, then adjusting everything else to compensate. This would take forever, as you'd have to move in baby steps to hit your target, and its a bit of hack that'd probably have some weird side effects. I wouldn't risk trying!
Since air intake vs power is linear, the alternative to get 800whp would be to run a 6" intake, which you obviously cant do Is there a more elegant solution? Maybe replace the MAF sensor itself with a unit that has a wider range? Stand-alone with air speed density?
I wonder if you could just tune around this by increasing the scaling without actually increasing the size, then adjusting everything else to compensate. This would take forever, as you'd have to move in baby steps to hit your target, and its a bit of hack that'd probably have some weird side effects. I wouldn't risk trying!
Since air intake vs power is linear, the alternative to get 800whp would be to run a 6" intake, which you obviously cant do
Is there a more elegant solution? Maybe replace the MAF sensor itself with a unit that has a wider range? Stand-alone with air speed density?
Looking at the mileage numbers I guess I've been running the BBX for about 6K miles. 3K prior to building the motor and 3K after. Yes, I broke a rod bolt on the stock motor and vented the block.
I will say that I the MAF/Intake/whatever limitation may explain why the car made the same power before and after the build even after adding the cams during the build. You can hear the restriction like a giant vacuum cleaner. It's really loud. This is a major flow restriction and can't be good for power.
BTW, I am running an AEM intake.
I will say that I the MAF/Intake/whatever limitation may explain why the car made the same power before and after the build even after adding the cams during the build. You can hear the restriction like a giant vacuum cleaner. It's really loud. This is a major flow restriction and can't be good for power.
BTW, I am running an AEM intake.
Sounds like it comes down to the MAF scaling table in the ECU. If you're not restricted on the intake, does it make sense to use a bigger pipe, taking up more space under-hood, when the limitation is in the electronics?
I wonder if you could just tune around this by increasing the scaling without actually increasing the size, then adjusting everything else to compensate. This would take forever, as you'd have to move in baby steps to hit your target, and its a bit of hack that'd probably have some weird side effects. I wouldn't risk trying!
Since air intake vs power is linear, the alternative to get 800whp would be to run a 6" intake, which you obviously cant do Is there a more elegant solution? Maybe replace the MAF sensor itself with a unit that has a wider range? Stand-alone with air speed density?
I wonder if you could just tune around this by increasing the scaling without actually increasing the size, then adjusting everything else to compensate. This would take forever, as you'd have to move in baby steps to hit your target, and its a bit of hack that'd probably have some weird side effects. I wouldn't risk trying!
Since air intake vs power is linear, the alternative to get 800whp would be to run a 6" intake, which you obviously cant do
Is there a more elegant solution? Maybe replace the MAF sensor itself with a unit that has a wider range? Stand-alone with air speed density?Why are we talking about this in a BBX thread? This forum goes so far off topic it's hideous sometimes. Search around, the maf sensor itself maxes out at 4.9 volts. Not much you can do scaling wise to get around that one (besides get a higher reading sensor)
i'd say recommend max psi is abt 28 psi and of course depending on gas type/weather conditions/tune/setup/etc .... straight pump 93 oct go for 28 psi "max" for bbx and 27 psi for the lite on the safe side while extracting the potential of the turbos.
" correction for the lite 26 was what i meant "
well, like many said, some or most of the bbx out there runs great without any hiccups but again it would be a good idea to have the oil line upgraded for added prevention and cooling effect on the turbos while it's working hard and the best part is that oil pressure is not a problem for us on the X compared to the older evo's. just my opinion though.
and seems like the answer from chad is pretty clear with the very few failures which is clearly manufacturer's flaw during the production stages and once again i would like to say the support from CBRD is one of the best out there.
so i guess the myth for the oil line is busted :P
" correction for the lite 26 was what i meant "
well, like many said, some or most of the bbx out there runs great without any hiccups but again it would be a good idea to have the oil line upgraded for added prevention and cooling effect on the turbos while it's working hard and the best part is that oil pressure is not a problem for us on the X compared to the older evo's. just my opinion though.
and seems like the answer from chad is pretty clear with the very few failures which is clearly manufacturer's flaw during the production stages and once again i would like to say the support from CBRD is one of the best out there.
so i guess the myth for the oil line is busted :P
Last edited by E6-X; Aug 5, 2010 at 10:00 AM. Reason: typo
There is such a thing as too much oil too, don't forget! 10 years ago everyone and their mom had PTE 50-trims (it's the new 16g!) but no one could decide if they should run the oil feed from the head (on a DSM) or the oil filter housing, and whether or not the oil inlet on the turbo should have a restrictor or not, or somewhere in the line, blah blah blah. The point is, oiling on a journal bearing turbo is something that needs to be somewhat balanced, and it is up to the manufacturer and the customer to decide what's best on each setup.
The nice thing is, the 4b11t doesn't have balance shafts to delete (which affects oil pressure on 4G63's) or a few other variables that really were probably part of the problem in the past. More setups will be more consistent on oil delivery as a result.
Concerning overspeeding, boost leak tests are a must on any turbocharged car! If you have a big leak on a conservative setup, it can overspeed the turbo! If you have a small leak on an aggressive setup, it can overspeed the turbo! These things already run at 160k+ rpm, trying to push enough air to compensate for the leak (via the boost control system) can make that 200k rpm in a heartbeat. Treat boost leak tests like oil changes or other general maintenance, do them regularly!
The nice thing is, the 4b11t doesn't have balance shafts to delete (which affects oil pressure on 4G63's) or a few other variables that really were probably part of the problem in the past. More setups will be more consistent on oil delivery as a result.
Concerning overspeeding, boost leak tests are a must on any turbocharged car! If you have a big leak on a conservative setup, it can overspeed the turbo! If you have a small leak on an aggressive setup, it can overspeed the turbo! These things already run at 160k+ rpm, trying to push enough air to compensate for the leak (via the boost control system) can make that 200k rpm in a heartbeat. Treat boost leak tests like oil changes or other general maintenance, do them regularly!
Hey guys,
overspeeding can CERTAINLY kill a turbo... think about it this way,
you are targeting 27psi... you are losing 10 psi through a leak, and now the turbo is trying to create 37psi at the comp outlet to get the 27psi to the manifold...
this is probably one of the most common failures. Almost EVERY single evo we ever test here at the shop (that hasnt been here before) has leaks... and almost anytime someone takes something apart and put it back together it has leaks! so Check them!!
id say max psi for our turbos is in the 32psi range for the BBX, and 30psi for the LITE, the lite is designed to really operate well in the 24-28 range, and the FULL in the 26-30 psi range!
cheers
cb
overspeeding can CERTAINLY kill a turbo... think about it this way,
you are targeting 27psi... you are losing 10 psi through a leak, and now the turbo is trying to create 37psi at the comp outlet to get the 27psi to the manifold...
this is probably one of the most common failures. Almost EVERY single evo we ever test here at the shop (that hasnt been here before) has leaks... and almost anytime someone takes something apart and put it back together it has leaks! so Check them!!
id say max psi for our turbos is in the 32psi range for the BBX, and 30psi for the LITE, the lite is designed to really operate well in the 24-28 range, and the FULL in the 26-30 psi range!
cheers
cb
There is such a thing as too much oil too, don't forget! 10 years ago everyone and their mom had PTE 50-trims (it's the new 16g!) but no one could decide if they should run the oil feed from the head (on a DSM) or the oil filter housing, and whether or not the oil inlet on the turbo should have a restrictor or not, or somewhere in the line, blah blah blah. The point is, oiling on a journal bearing turbo is something that needs to be somewhat balanced, and it is up to the manufacturer and the customer to decide what's best on each setup.
The nice thing is, the 4b11t doesn't have balance shafts to delete (which affects oil pressure on 4G63's) or a few other variables that really were probably part of the problem in the past. More setups will be more consistent on oil delivery as a result.
Concerning overspeeding, boost leak tests are a must on any turbocharged car! If you have a big leak on a conservative setup, it can overspeed the turbo! If you have a small leak on an aggressive setup, it can overspeed the turbo! These things already run at 160k+ rpm, trying to push enough air to compensate for the leak (via the boost control system) can make that 200k rpm in a heartbeat. Treat boost leak tests like oil changes or other general maintenance, do them regularly!
The nice thing is, the 4b11t doesn't have balance shafts to delete (which affects oil pressure on 4G63's) or a few other variables that really were probably part of the problem in the past. More setups will be more consistent on oil delivery as a result.
Concerning overspeeding, boost leak tests are a must on any turbocharged car! If you have a big leak on a conservative setup, it can overspeed the turbo! If you have a small leak on an aggressive setup, it can overspeed the turbo! These things already run at 160k+ rpm, trying to push enough air to compensate for the leak (via the boost control system) can make that 200k rpm in a heartbeat. Treat boost leak tests like oil changes or other general maintenance, do them regularly!
and the tech you mentioned was 10 years ago the X is way better and outperforms the older gens of evos/dsm's.of course boost leak test is a MUST especially after installation of new turbo/hoses or any connections. thats why i'm always being on the conservative side and power up progressively.
anyways, myth's been busted and chad da man has chimed in
hey Chad,
quick question:
at peak torque does the turbo spin the same speed as at redline for the same psi?
I'm assuming not, so does that mean you should be able to run something like 34psi at peak torque tapering down to 24psi by redline..
quick question:
at peak torque does the turbo spin the same speed as at redline for the same psi?
I'm assuming not, so does that mean you should be able to run something like 34psi at peak torque tapering down to 24psi by redline..
I just got my BBX installed, and after fixing my retarded coolant issue. I took it for a spin
I was letting off the throttle at 15psi, but god even untuned it shot to 15psi like nothing.
My AFR was pinned at 10, and I love the new sound of the turbo sucking in gallons of air
On an unrelated side note, god my DW800s are noisy
I was letting off the throttle at 15psi, but god even untuned it shot to 15psi like nothing.
My AFR was pinned at 10, and I love the new sound of the turbo sucking in gallons of air
On an unrelated side note, god my DW800s are noisy
