our BBX lite is roughly around the same compressor dimensions as a 3076R comp wheel

the BBX full is in between a 3076R and 35R wheel

they both share the same turbine wheel...

just for reference.

we did testing on the GT3076R for Garrett (under contract with them).... and we also tested 8-9 other STOCK housing turbos on the evo X when we got one (very early on)... My thought process in doing so.. was if Garrett can make a great product... then we will support it instead of developing our own solutions.....

I can say in my opinion any offering from FP or our own were better than the results I had with the garrett... this is simply what I found.. and my opinion

We tried the garrett in their two different hotsides... the larger spooled like a non TS 3076R and the smaller surged at any input of throttle so I couldnt even drive it on the highway at anything but steady pedal input or it would buck!

My thought process was... if you are going to run it.. put the 35R in that big housing.. if youre going to have the lag, atleast you get the high rpm hit!

I have NO (none what-so-ever) experience with the new GTX wheels... I'm very curious about them, along with the BW EFR (which we have on order)

cb

 

Locally we have seen the same thing, the garretts bolt on has never made more power, I don't care what race teams say, they are probably sponsored. And if they aren't, they have ****ty set ups. The fp and cbrd owns the Garret offering.

 

So hard proof data doesn't mean anything to you. Got it. I guess the earth is still flat too.

 

I'm sure it could... but I cant find a single website that even says these race teams used the turbo. Its almost impossible to find that these teams even exist. So the hard proof of numbers posted on known dynos, of the word of turbo builders like chad and robert at fp. They say the bolt on 3076 sucks ***. In a t3 kit, it'd be much much nicer, but still kinda a weird setup. In either case, this thread is about a gtx3076, which currently is only a t3 kit, vs a bolt on black. And a black is the price winner, and probably a close winner performance wise. The only proof of these other teams is you saying it, b/c the dynos you posted were quite weak.

 

About 5 minutes of google search.

Stoptech, on the COBB tuning blog no less;
http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/2009/10/...e-time-attack/

Dentsport, almost half way down:
http://www.dentsport.com/2010/05/11/...-no-new-posts/
Link to dynos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/matt.koe...=embedwebsite#

Works:
http://www.***************/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17350
Scroll down a bit on the news page to find the info on 2nd at Redline at Infineon
http://www.worksevo.com/

From Gunzo who I feel is a pretty respected member:
http://www.***************/forums/sh...13&postcount=5
"Garrett has 3 versions of the housings for the Evo X ..

The review was bad because of the initial problems with the wastegate flapper door ..

the 2nd version attempted to fix it .. but had other issues with boost leakage fromt he flapper ..

the most recent changes they did fixed all the problems .. for now ..

so far I've tested most of the turbos here .. depending on the power you want .. the GT3076 is actually a very good street and good road course turbo.. it is definitely not a drag turbo as its probably not big enough ..

I have to say interestingly .. the boost comes on about similiar to the other similiar sized turbos .. ie the green and dom (much faster than the red and the BBX) ..but the torque is much higher than the others boost for boost ..this is probably the efficiency of the garrett wheel..

GT3076 flows about 400g/s at 26psi if you guys want to compare to the other turbos ..

Garrett does offer replacement for the older series housings though .. so all is not lost yet ..

As for the GTX .. I bet I know people who can make it fit the garrett Evo X housing"
Those dynos are the only same car, same dyno comparisons I know of. Until someone shows me a same car, same dyno of a Red doing better than the 3076, then I'll stick to my point of view.

I don't mind it at all if people state their position backed up by fact. What I don't accept is someone saying A is better than B because someone else said so, and don't provide any info to back it up. I've provided fact.

As for the GTX3076 vs. Black; I predict the Black will make more power than the GTX3076 based on compressor maps (of GT3076 vs. GTX3076), data from Perrin (testing on their STI), and estimated turbo size of the Black being about the same as a 3582. I'd say that with 80% confidence as the Black is essentially a much bigger turbo. I'd say that the only thing really holding back the Black is the small stock turbine housing, which accounts for 20% lack of confidence in my opinion. It's pretty reasonable to say that someone can expect better spoolup and transient response with the GTX3076, but the Black will make more power. Smaller turbo spools sooner and better transient, bigger turbo more power. Makes complete logical sense right?

Edit: looks like EvoM doesn't like the 'other' Evo forum, hence the *************

 

are we talking about the GTX ATP turbo or a GTX T3?

the lines will get blended!

and Im sorry but the GT3076 R in the hotside that doesnt surge (the larger) does not spool as quick as the BBX OR an FP RED from what we've had on our dyno!

cb

 

Two years old. True, the car ran a bolt-on garrett. But, they were sponsored by Garrett.... and I don't know how you can prove they chose the gt over a red? Gates ran a red, does that mean that the gt sucks b/c a race-proven team who won just as much as stoptech ran it?
Yep, faster spool and higher tq. Note ~360whp. Know what else does that w/ faster spool and more tq than a red? A green.

.... Again doesn't prove anything besides Robert doesn't sponsor cars
It is efficient at low boost, no one has questioned that. But at high boost, where the FP wheels are designed to run, the red takes over, I still haven't seen a 3076 make anywhere near 500whp, and several reds do.

The problem is that no one will run the 3076, because all users of it have come away disappointed. Again, the only real authority on this is those who have used it, and Chris (hiboost) takes the cake on that one. What you've provided was fact, but the fact that someone used something doesn't mean that it's better. Esp when they're all sponsored by that company. If DG sponsored my car and I won a race, does that mean DG is better than AMS b/c I didn't use them?

Anyway, seems all are in agreement that what this thread was supposed to be about, gtx3076 vs black, the black will make more power in exchange for spool, which doesn't matter on a road course, thus the black wins .

How how about a gtx3582... I want one of those

 

If you guys are curious- I have overlays of the Garrett 3076R both large and small hotsides...

against BBX lite, BBX full, and FP red! to show spool... they arent apples to apples but it does simply show spool and the GT3076R loses to all of them, by a decent margin...

The GTX wheel is designed to have a better efficiency range for higher boost pressures in the same flow range..... therefor I dont see its spool up increasing...

let me know if you want any posts... because I dont have fp black dyno plots I cant post those overlays- so I dont want to thread hijack...

cb

 

I'll probably be making a last run at high HP on the Garrett GT3076r before switching to a T3 setup running a GTX3076r that STM is making for me. I think without building the engine going to a GTX3582r would be overkill and I would lose another 400-500 spool/response without being able to take advantage of the top end flow increase from 7500-8500. Once I get a 2.2L in there I'll look at the 35r or 6262 turbo sizes.

I would be willing to test the T3 GTX3076r with .82 hotside versus an FP Black if someone donated the turbo. Then we could end the debate once and for all and I would run the best setup for competition.

 

Chad .. the turbo you tested had issues with the housing .. as you mentioned ..

I have 2 side by side and yours definitely was laggier than the other !!

the one thats working fine got full boost in 4th @ 37-3800rpms ..
the faulty one got full boost at 4500rpms ..

Garrett was kind enough to send me the replacement housing and its fixed
Smaller 0.7AR housing spooled even faster

 

For some more data, the CBRD BBX Lite (that Chad says has the same dimensions of a 3076R wheel) that I have in my RA gets 26psi at 3500 rpm in 4th gear and hits a little over 400 g/sec at that boost so about 52-53 lb/min.

 

we had both housings...

the testing that we did initially was before we starting having issues with the WG arm... that occured after some useage.. the car was tuned immediately when the 3076R was put on.

the smaller housing was the new version with the upgraded WG pin...

cb

 

Did I mention the smaller AR spooled even faster ?
It is really interesting to claim same dimensions for both turbos and yet the thrust bearing turbo spools much faster than a ball bearing turbo.. turbo is just physics .. you gain at the expense of something .. just my thoughts ..

I'll see if I can get one of my friends to test out the turbo .. then at least I can agree or disagree from there .. think BBX is the only turbo I have not tested yet ..

The upgraded WG pin housing was faulty also .. you told me that yourself
And that was the version 2 housing

The NEW housing which I got later on is the one that has no problems

 

Well yea, I would hope a ball bearing turbo would spool quicker.

I was mearly posting some data points, not saying it was better or worse then anything.

I personally think the BBX Lite is a great turbo, it looks 100% stock, makes great power curves for the street and spools great.

 

There is someone who has one about to get slapped on an Evo from what I hear... I hope he has some good results and shares them with everyone. I'm curious myself about it.