Stock Frames are nice and all, but coming from a stock frame guy....unless you have all the stock frame components....downpipe, IC piping, intake etc Just skip right to the t3 kit and then you can move around power levels very easy with a turbo swap.

 

 

I dunno i heard once you go black you never go back.

 

I think with the FP Black you will have no fitment issuses , and with the GTX3076R you may , power wise i think the gtx30 will yield more gains. but i cant confirm as i have none

 

A black with a tubular manifold will yield faster spool for sure and probably higher power and a fatter powerband. If you are maxing both turbo's...but I haven't compared either. i am going off results i have seen on evo 8/9's.

I mean, the GT30's have been around forever and provided lower gains than an FPred on the 8/9's. i find it hard to believe the GTX will provide enough gains to make it better than the FPblack.

 

I'd rather build a block and run a black with tubular manifold for the same price of a gtx30 kit. My reason being is that it mounts the turbo in the stock location so you dont have to worry about melting components mounted to the firewall. I have a feeling mitsubishi new what they were doing when they mounted the turbo where they did.

 

Oh yea did I mention that it'd be cheaper to build a block and run a black than it would to buy a gtx30 and t3 kit =P

 

Not sure what you are defining as building your block but unless you do all the labor yourself theres not a chance, lol. And even if you do all the labor yourself, the black is a $2000 turbo and doesn't include any intake, UICP or downpipe like the ones that come with a t3 kit..oh and no manifold.

I built my motor and have a black, but seriously unless you have all those mods, I would just go to a t3 kit...

 

a black a downpipe and an intake is much cheaper than an ets kit with a gtx3076r thats all I was getting at. With the money you save by not going with the t3 kit you could certainly put towards a very nice block.

Keep in mind the ets kit doesnt come with an intake its like $350 extra. It also only comes with an upper ic pipe.

 

A couple of posts up you said a black with a tubular...if you don't get a manifold for the black then it becomes a little clearer as that is an extra $1000.

But a built block isn't cheap. I invested over 10k into my build. With the built head and other upgrades it was probably more like 12k...that included a new shortblock though.

I am just saying, its not as cheap as most people think. T3 kits just seem like more because its a lump sum.

 

Yea understood. Before I ordered all my parts from Adam I was gonna go with the ETS kit. I went with the black because it left me enough change to buy a good clutch and a decent fuel system. I'm assuming that this guys choice in turbo is based off the fact that he has unlimited funds or something because he's comparing a bolt on turbo to a full kit and not mentioning prices as a concern, lol. Not to mention both are useless without cams.

 

I have some drivability issues with my Red. I'm considering doing something different, but have no idea what to do. I have no complaints about top end power, and the thing is brilliant on a road course, but it's street manners aren't the best. Part throttle and trying to get power under 4,000rpm leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe when I build my motor, it will help but I'm not sure.

It's kinda weird, but I feel like 3k - 4k RPM isn't useable, but that's also where I spend most of my time on the street. I would rather be in boost there like the stock turbo, or still spoolin like a bigger turbo. When I'm cruising in 5th @ 60 and want to go WOT, I either need to slowly roll it on, or downshift, which spins too fast and wastes the powerband.

Anyway, my question is, how to the part throttle manners of a T3 kit compare to stock frame? I definitely won't get a black, because it's so close to the red. I might consider a 30R or 35R, but I'm wondering if these will be just as frustrating in terms of surge and lag.

Maybe I should just build a stock frame torque monster with an HKS GTII or something. I definitely plan to run nothing but E85, and 30+ psi. I'm addicted to nearly 500whp, and now want something that spools fast too!

 

I picked up 80whp on my black and like 20-30wtq...i did change a lot of other stuff too though so not a great comparison. But the black can be pushed quite a bit higher than the red.

edit: The spool difference is minimal as well. However, if you don't like the red's lag...don't go black its basically the same.

 

what rpm do you reach full boost. I dont think I've ever seen your graph, just curious.

 

Here is my boost plot vs. my Fpred plot.



Then horsepower/torque vs. Fpred old setup.