I would say go with the Black based on the simple fact that you'll be saving tons of money... Not having to buy all the extras like the manifold and piping, and stuff like that. Unless your speaking of the Garret that bolts up to the stock exhaust manifold, but I'm not even sure if they make those anymore.

 

Model Years: 2008 +

Engine: 2.0L 4B11 Turbocharged Inline 4

The Garrett® Evo X Turbo Upgrade allows you to push your AWD, rally-bred monster up to an estimated 475 HP with the Garrett® GT3071R (PN 788550-1) or a tire-smoking estimated 525 HP with the Garrett® GT3076R (PN 788550-2). Each turbo has been meticulously designed to be a bolt-on upgrade with no fabrication, cutting or welding required.

The Garrett® Evo X Turbo Upgrade features a specially designed twin-scroll turbine housing that mates up directly to the Evo X's stock exhaust manifold as well as the stock exhaust down pipe to allow for aftermarket exhausts to be used without worrying about fitment.

The turbine housing allows for the retention of the stock exhaust heat shield for better temperature control as well as a stealth look.

The ported shroud compressor housing reduces the occurrence of surge during operation and mates directly to the intake piping as well as the stock outlet position.

The Garrett® patented dual ball bearing center housing is standard on both turbocharger options for unmatched power handling and unbeatable response.

The Garrett® Evo X Turbo Upgrade is a powerful, yet highly streetable enhancement to an already potent car.

1/4 mile time: 11.7 ET with best trap speed of 125.7 MPH

In full 100% factory weight

GT3076R
PN 788550-2
Horsepower (estimated) 525
Compressor Wheel Inducer 57.0mm
Compressor Wheel Exducer 76.2mm
Compressor Wheel Trim 56
Compressor Housing A/R 0.60
Turbine Wheel Diameter 60.0mm
Turbine Housing A/R 0.94

Kit Contains:

Garrett® GT3076R (788550-2) dual ball bearing application specific turbocharger
Inlet elbow
Oil drain line
Water lines
Gaskets and necessary hardware
Installation Instructions

 

several people have tried it, most notably Hiboost. However, the original design was plagued with problems, even in 76r form it makes less power than a red w/ only slightly better spool, and it's overpriced. Nobody has really tried them since the original ones had all the issues w/ the wg flapper, but its not like they made them flow any better since them.

 

Actually, it makes better power than the Red for the same boost level. You can ask the guys are RRE, Dent Sport Garage, or the Stoptech time attack team.

From RRE with the 3076: AEM intake, cosworth cams, test pipe, AMS downpipe, ported stock manifold. low power is 91 octane, high power is E85



Palmerblock made 500whp with the GT35 version with stock cams on E85 I think. There's a thread on it around here.

 

I'll have to ask for a link on that dyno, bc i flat don't believe that is an evo x bolt on stock frame gt3076. a 3076 cannot flow enough air to hit 500whp, it's a 55lb turbo, the red is 60lb. Reds can hit 500 in e85 too, but 500whp at28psi on a stock frame? Not on an evo x

Hiboost has a well documented build, with every possible bolt on Inc ex manifold, intake manifold, etc and he made 380 on a mustang. 500 is not possible, period. This turbo has nothing on a black

 

Oh and palmErblock made 500 on the ATP 35r, which is this turbo w a35r compressor. Mural made 570 on a black, which is just the stock frame w 35r compressor. So there you go, more proof you don't need a 3076 or it's variants. ATP kit costs four grand to set up, vs two for a black

 

Link to RRE build:
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...opic=104014.20



So how does the GT3076 make more power/torque for the same boost as the Red? Because it has a much larger turbine housing. I found a pic from Eric Hsu's Beyond the Dyno blog comparing the 0.73 A/R GT3071 turbine housing vs. the stock turbine housing. The GT3076 comes with an even bigger 0.94 A/R.



As for Palmerblock's car, he's using the full-race manifold, ATP downpipe, and some exhaust. Still stock cams.

And Hiboost is making an estimated 425whp now which I believe is still on 93 octane:
http://onelap.rochesterdsm.org/therides/the-evo-x/

So that correlates somewhat to RRE getting 397whp on their dyno with 91 oct.

 

at same boost level, it may well be more efficient. However, the reds are well known that want higher boost to come alive. And since in either case you'll want a built block, then run the higher boost - and boom you get more power from a red.

Hiboost making 425 is nice. I make 450 w/o intake manifold, or exhause manifold. I do have cams, but i'm also running 26psi!

A black has higher top end 100% than a 3076r. The compressor wheel is 35r series rather than 30r. How is that hard to fathom?

 

Just wait until I get a nice tubular to compare to a 35r kit, I'll be over 600whp for sure

 

Eh? Who said anything about comparing a 3076 with a black? I was comparing it to a Red per your quote, "even in 76r form it makes less power than a red".

In having spoken to those that have used both the Red and the GT3076, they all prefer the 3076 because it has better transient response and better power, particularly when octane limited.

As for Hiboost, he does not have cams, but I don't think he'd make any more power with them as he seems to have maxed out the compressor wheel. Who knows, maybe a set of cams would still gain him something.

As for the Stoptech time attack car using the ATP GT35, I want to say it made 550whp on 109 octane, and 600whp with meth. Through a catalytic convertor due to the Redline Time Attack street class rules.

Anyways, the point I was making was to counter your statement that the Red made more power than the 3076.

 

We are comparing the black and the gtx3076r...that is the thread title

 

heh... well, it really should be a Black vs GT3582 or GTX3582. From what the Subaru guys have seen so far, the GTX3076 is worth ~25-30whp over the regular GT. However, they did not max out the regular GT, so those gains are purely from efficiency gains. So in the case of someone like Hiboost who has maxed out the regular wheel, the GTX3076 might be worth more. Maybe upwards of 50whp?

From what those guys in Greece were doing, they went from ~640whp on their crazy 4G63 build with the GT35 to 740whp with the GTX35. Anyways, that's a different topic.

 

at this point i assume the gtx3076 will put out more than a red, i doubt it will reach a black, but the throttle response most likely will be superior due to the larger housing. From what i understand there 3 weeks out from having a direct bolt on. My only purpose for this car is really the track , so my primary concern is the throttle response and the larger turbos really suck at this unless you really have a engine that flows well. Plan is to run it @24 ,the wheel should hold 28, but not really concerned about top end as i am about response and the power/torque curve. Will see how this goes , obvious heat would be the bigest factor of not running a higher boost level on the track.



I should have dyno graphs for everyone once it shows up but it might not be a fair comparison since i intend on running it with a AEM standalone & external wastegate. This is on an EVO X as well, the 4G63 variant i believe just got released.

 

^ At low boost levels and 93 octane, I wouldn't even consider a RED or BLACK. I don't think heat is a big concern, though, with a stock frame anyway. Plenty of us have pushed Reds VERY hard without issue . I still think a T3 setup is the way to go if you can afford it, but for me, maybe it's just "the grass is greener"...

 

I'm really on the fence with keeping the GT3076r as I think the 425 whp range on STM's mustang dyno is about topping it out, at least at 28 psi and pump gas. I do plan on going with Cosworth MX1 cams and expect a good 30-40 whp out of them across the rpm range but now I'm worried that the stock block might not play nice forever if I keep adding power. I'm also tweaking the intake side for efficiency and will be testing a few different combos to see what works and what doesn't.

I really like the transient response of the GT3076r and if it's only a ~200 rpm hit for the GTX version it seems to be a nice in between turbo without going to a 35R. I've also seen quite a few strong FP Black cars so it's really tough to say what is best. I think anything setup with a balanced combo will be +-10% of the other but I guess it's that last 10% everyone is chasing as an advantage.

I may just go with an AMS 2.2L and see how far I can push the GT3076r, then replace it with some kind of T3 kit with GTX wheels and really go nuts once the engine can take it.