Which Turbo?
True, but all that my graph shows is that it is all about setup. It's about maximizing the setup to reach its full potential.
IMO, most of the X setups out there now are no where near maximized and there are lots of things to tweak to make them better. This is why its so hard to decide as some people have better overall setups making certain turbos look better sometimes and other times not.
It's a crap shoot.
IMO, most of the X setups out there now are no where near maximized and there are lots of things to tweak to make them better. This is why its so hard to decide as some people have better overall setups making certain turbos look better sometimes and other times not.
It's a crap shoot.
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Evolving Member
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I've had great luck on pump gas with a set of DW800's I picked up second-hand. Definitely do a fuel pump if you do a turbo. The stock pump will keep up but you will be pushing it to the limit, which is dangerous. I knew with the BBX on e85 I'd be at the limit of a single walbro and a set of FIC1100's (the logical next step from teh 800's I'm running now) so I bumped each component up a notch with a DW300 fuel pump and the FIC1680cc injectors. Headroom is good, safety first!
To give you an idea of the powerband difference between my stock turbo setup and my new setup, have a look at this overlay:
So my point is, if its torque you want, a bigger turbo will certainly help but don't forget supporting mods! Keep in mind two things: this is only on pump gas, and this is not a turbo-vs-turbo comparo. The upper BBX setup I built the head, did tubular manifold (hurt torque a bit around 4000rpm), put in Kelford 214-b cams (made up for the torque loss at 4000 and then some), MAP o2-elim downpipe, and put on a bigger Buschur FMIC.
Powerwise, I think a really nice setup (what you're after) for the BBX Lite would be:
TBE (including o2-elim downpipe)
UICP
CBRD, Buschur, or Perrin FMIC
AMS or Primo intake (your stock maf housing will be maxed out)
FIC 1100cc injectors
Walbro fuel pump (I recommend the MAP or Cobb adapter)
CBRD BBX Lite
BCS for map-switching boost control setup
Ported Exhaust Manifold
Down the road, on the stock block, there's more you can do to widen the powerband:
Tubular Exhaust manifold
MAP or Mil.Spec ported intake manfiold
Mil.spec ported TB
cams (go big if you do this, basic beehive valvesprings and GSC S2, or Kelford 214-B or -C cams).
Hope this helps!
To give you an idea of the powerband difference between my stock turbo setup and my new setup, have a look at this overlay:
So my point is, if its torque you want, a bigger turbo will certainly help but don't forget supporting mods! Keep in mind two things: this is only on pump gas, and this is not a turbo-vs-turbo comparo. The upper BBX setup I built the head, did tubular manifold (hurt torque a bit around 4000rpm), put in Kelford 214-b cams (made up for the torque loss at 4000 and then some), MAP o2-elim downpipe, and put on a bigger Buschur FMIC.
Powerwise, I think a really nice setup (what you're after) for the BBX Lite would be:
TBE (including o2-elim downpipe)
UICP
CBRD, Buschur, or Perrin FMIC
AMS or Primo intake (your stock maf housing will be maxed out)
FIC 1100cc injectors
Walbro fuel pump (I recommend the MAP or Cobb adapter)
CBRD BBX Lite
BCS for map-switching boost control setup
Ported Exhaust Manifold
Down the road, on the stock block, there's more you can do to widen the powerband:
Tubular Exhaust manifold
MAP or Mil.Spec ported intake manfiold
Mil.spec ported TB
cams (go big if you do this, basic beehive valvesprings and GSC S2, or Kelford 214-B or -C cams).
Hope this helps!
This helps tremendously. I have most of what you listed and will be doing the rest with the turbo. Will 1100 FIC be enough for a Lite on E85? And I was looking at doing an Aeromotive 340lph pump, I've heard good things and would give me more headroom. I have a Harmann Motive Intake which I think is identical to the AMS. What would a tubular manifold do if I added it with a turbo? Hurt or help? I will keep those other mods in mind too thank you, I'm probably going to wait on cams etc until I build the motor, but you never know, I may say F it. Also, I'm still on stock clutch and don't plan to go crazy or launch it, but my main concern is getting tuned. With this much power will my stock clutch with 10k blow up on the dyno? I plan on getting a clutch, just not at this time. You guys have no idea how much you are helping!!
The stock clutch can take a lot of torque and abuse if you don't launch it and you treat it right.
Mine held 33psi on my fpred with well over 400wtq. I swapped it around 25k miles because it slipped a bit but it was still holding.
Mine held 33psi on my fpred with well over 400wtq. I swapped it around 25k miles because it slipped a bit but it was still holding.
This helps tremendously. I have most of what you listed and will be doing the rest with the turbo. Will 1100 FIC be enough for a Lite on E85? And I was looking at doing an Aeromotive 340lph pump, I've heard good things and would give me more headroom. I have a Harmann Motive Intake which I think is identical to the AMS. What would a tubular manifold do if I added it with a turbo? Hurt or help? I will keep those other mods in mind too thank you, I'm probably going to wait on cams etc until I build the motor, but you never know, I may say F it. Also, I'm still on stock clutch and don't plan to go crazy or launch it, but my main concern is getting tuned. With this much power will my stock clutch with 10k blow up on the dyno? I plan on getting a clutch, just not at this time. You guys have no idea how much you are helping!!
I was trying to decide on a pump and I went with the DW301. It looked like the DW was a better fit for me, plus IIRC the wiring on the plug of the Aeromotive 340 is backwards or something?
If the Harmann Motive intake is larger diameter than stock, you should be good. Right at the edge of it, but it should be fine for your setup.
1100's should be just about right, even on e85 with the BBX Lite you should be fine.
Doing a tubular manifold at the same time as the turbo will basically get you all the gains you'd see with both individually at the same time, nothing magic there, just insta cool, nothing wrong with it except for cashflow. If that's not a problem, go for it
Oh, and don't worry about the clutch, there's plenty of aftermarket ones out there if your stocker starts to slip!
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Evolving Member
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I was trying to decide on a pump and I went with the DW301. It looked like the DW was a better fit for me, plus IIRC the wiring on the plug of the Aeromotive 340 is backwards or something?
If the Harmann Motive intake is larger diameter than stock, you should be good. Right at the edge of it, but it should be fine for your setup.
1100's should be just about right, even on e85 with the BBX Lite you should be fine.
Doing a tubular manifold at the same time as the turbo will basically get you all the gains you'd see with both individually at the same time, nothing magic there, just insta cool, nothing wrong with it except for cashflow. If that's not a problem, go for it
Oh, and don't worry about the clutch, there's plenty of aftermarket ones out there if your stocker starts to slip!
If the Harmann Motive intake is larger diameter than stock, you should be good. Right at the edge of it, but it should be fine for your setup.
1100's should be just about right, even on e85 with the BBX Lite you should be fine.
Doing a tubular manifold at the same time as the turbo will basically get you all the gains you'd see with both individually at the same time, nothing magic there, just insta cool, nothing wrong with it except for cashflow. If that's not a problem, go for it
Oh, and don't worry about the clutch, there's plenty of aftermarket ones out there if your stocker starts to slip!
I have a BBX Lite, but no dyno access. Bryan from GST tuned my car on a road tune and it made 422whp on virtual dyno on 93 octane (have no idea how that reads), mods in sig. Stock airbox, stock unported manifold.
Car feels spectacular. I think it would trap 114-115mph with no problem.
Car feels spectacular. I think it would trap 114-115mph with no problem.
Here's my review of the map tubular manifold.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ting-evox.html
My car lost about 400rpm spool (no tuning, maybe that could have been helped with mivec?) but picked up about 40whp up top. Fantastic mod!
Murlo participated in a test of ported stock manifold vs the tubulars:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...o-results.html
Kinda why I recommended the MAP short-runner exhaust manifold, its a nice inbetween on performance vs price. If you're looking for the best though, I recommend MAP's long-runner, CBRD's, or the FiD manifold (I currently have this on my car).
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ting-evox.html
My car lost about 400rpm spool (no tuning, maybe that could have been helped with mivec?) but picked up about 40whp up top. Fantastic mod!
Murlo participated in a test of ported stock manifold vs the tubulars:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...o-results.html
Kinda why I recommended the MAP short-runner exhaust manifold, its a nice inbetween on performance vs price. If you're looking for the best though, I recommend MAP's long-runner, CBRD's, or the FiD manifold (I currently have this on my car).
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Those are great write ups and reads. I think for what I want now, the MAP short runner might be the best bet until I build. I'll have to see what the funds are looking like when I put this all together and the difference in the MAP and CBRD manifolds. Or just say F it and use stock unported for now. A lot to think about...
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Wiznaz
Evo Dyno Tuning / Results
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Jun 14, 2009 09:23 PM
