Toyota/Lexus can afford to do that. Mitsu can't. LOL

 

Sooooo true...but it has been proven to defeat the IX in autocrossn'....

 

This does not concur with the rumour that was developing Launch Control for the SST, 1 of the reasons for the SST not appearing on sale yet.

 

I'm sure it will have a launch control, if not in the beginning than at least later on. It's only a software issue. IIRC the early DSG's on the various VW's didn't have the launch control and then later came with it.

 

transmission has got to take priority if you are any way inclined as a driver.

 

Actually it gained 9 hp/11 lb-ft and 82 lbs (for the GSR *if* it is a true world car), so the performance should be the same as the current car in a straight line. We;ll have to wait and see what the US numbers are.

 

I find it amazing that a car that has made it's reputation on technology has so many people complaining about the SST. The EVO has always been about the technology... the SST is a huge step up.
The 5-speed is all-new... hopefully stronger than the inevitably-breaking manual transmissions of the past. But the highway geared 5-speed will have a dull top end... 5th gear will be almost useless for open track events on big tracks (as it is on current 5-speed cars).
The SST is stronger yet - Mitsubishi is already showing it behind the upcoming diesel engines that make far more torque.
As far as mods to SST-equipped cars, big deal. This is the future. True Evo enthusiasts have found a way in the past (not just to mod, but to exploit), and find a way in the future. Engine mods won't be a big issue... there is a shift map based on certain parameters and that will need to be adjusted just like a spark map is dependent on several factors and is routinely optimized.
So instead of whining, get busy figuring it out. Information is already starting to appear in Japan.

 

Please post the link to the bold highlight above. Thanks.

 

quote "5th gear will be almost useless for open track events on big tracks (as it is on current 5-speed cars)."


???????? please explain this for me.

 

Amongst others: http://evoxenthusiast.com/sec-other-...t-ZT/index.htm

It's well known that the new diesel 2.2 is going worldwide in a number of vehicles... and that the ZT is representative of a production bound product.

And, Mitsubishi would not have made the investment in an all-new transmission without planning to use it in multiple vehicles. Now would they have made an investment in a transmission with a torque capacity of only 311...

 

Here's the challenge: (notice I said a big track) on my track a mid-pack performance car should be hitting ~140 at the end of the straight... and still be accelerating while coming off the high-degree banking and turning down & left into the inner track. You've used that straight to pass the slower cars... and you are still looking for an edge over the faster cars - many of which can do 160-175 there (it would take a heckuva lot of extra HP to get this "aero brick" up to that kind of speed). You won't have an absolute edge here over those faster cars, but you absolutely cannot afford to fall very far behind. You have to keep up your cadence so that so that you can look to play your AWD and torque-vectoring advantage in the numerous tight turns in the inside portion of the course.

Now here's the problem in stock 5-speed Evo VIII/IXs on this main straight. You'll start to notice this part way down the straight (and even worse when running the track in reverse direction, because of the layout, when entering the straight). I have seen this many times in earlier Evos when driven flat-out and well.... I believe it will be the same problem in the 5-speed Evo X and have the drive-time experience and numbers to prove it. Although I may not be explaining it well here... normally I'd have a large map of the track and chalk-talk it.

• Shift into 5th - RPM drops big time (economy gear).
• Get up to 100-115 in 5th - engine starts dialing back boost. Worse.

*Stock* Evo VIII/IX 5-speed:

The acceleration *noticeably* drops off in this situation. 4th gear doesn't leave enough RPM to get to the necessary speed so you are stuck with 5th gear and a very seriously reduced rate of acceleration. In fact, in the reverse direction you notice this as you enter the main straight! Shifting into 5th very quickly turns into a slow crawl to HP peak in 5th - but the problem is you won't get there given the length of the straight because the acceleration will be so slow.

Overall gearing isn't radically different in the Evo X 5-speed. In 4th it will only do 93 at HP peak... shift into 5th and it could do 134 at HP peak. Except - again - you'll never get there because you are out of straight.

This is one way the Evo VIII/IX and X 5-speeds are all much the same car with the same issue for high speed work.

Keep in mind that at this high speed drag is a problem so you are starting to have to work harder anyway. Making it even worse, any shifting costs serious acceleration time, too. Going 4th to 5th is very noticeable. You can count the seconds you've just added to your lap time.

Evo X

What I've left out so far is the RPM you'd be at while coming thru a pair of 90-degrees turns with just before the main straight. The SST is better geared overall here as well, so the RPM thru these twisties would be higher in 3rd and then and I'd get to and thru 4th gear earlier on the main straight rather than later. And therefore on to a higher top speed.

With the SST, we'd shift at 6500 RPM in 5th (@ 117 MPH - my guess is about 1/3rd of the way down the length of the straight) into 6th gear and then we'd only have to get to 6000 RPM for 140 MPH (and we'd have had have more room on the straight to do so). And you will pass that many more people by being able to show that kind of over-taking speed. Over-taking speed is what counts here.

Because of the extra gear, there is an extra shift. However, the shifting is extra-human fast, and the revs are perfectly matched so the boost will return that much faster as well. Given the better gearing of the SST for this work, the car will be in a better RPM range to continue boost. While it will also (like the old Evos) start to drop off of max boost at high RPM, at least the RPM is in the right place here to keep closer to the HP peak.

I'm sitting here contemplating drawing a track map of likely shift points for this car, compared to some of my other cars. I'm out of time to go this far, but clearly the 6-speed is far better geared for these particular circumstances (as it would have been w/ the previous 6-speed).

So for this particular circumstance, in an X, it's a 6-speed SST or nothing. Even if it might require an add-on tranny cooler (pump and cooler will probably cost $1500) - which would be a good choice eventually, anyway.

Notice again I said clearly *stock*. Mods can help make up for this, there are mods to keep the boost up to max RPM, but the gearing problem is inherent.

(Coming back to this 2 hours later Let me try illustrate this a bit better:

Here's the speed-in-gear for each tranny:


Here's the course... with the normal direction indicated. The parts I'm talking about above are between the two red dots, and the direction is indicated with an arrow. This graphic (from the track site) isn't very good... the first two turns (starting with the left red dot) are actually more or less 90 degrees, first a left and then an immediate right - although it doesn't look at all like that angle on this lousy graphic. After those, you need to accelerate as much as possible and with the SST you will be well into 4th when you come out onto on the main straight (the "straight" is also straighter than it appears here, and it's well banked).

By the end of the straight, I want an X to be doing ~140. From gearing alone, it's not possible in the 5-speed. At the end of the straight you turn towards the left, go thru the transition from the banking to the flat inside section of the track while continuing to accelerating just a bit, then brake for all you have. You need to brake down to about ~80 for the left-hand Turn 2. This is where the 2-piece rotors will be invaluable, as well as aftermarket pads. The in Turn 2, the torque-vectoring rear diff will really come into play.


If you want to see an Evo IX manual and an Evo X SST side-by-side, look at this excellent YouTube video from the press briefing in Japan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezS5Te4S46I This is exactly what I'm talking about for time wasted manually shifting.

Finally, remember that the X is only 100 pounds heavier, than the previous car. The new tranny is 49 pounds heavier, but the engine is 27 pounds lighter. This is an extraordinary achievement on the part of Mitsubishi, because newly designed cars are gaining rate at a tremendous rate. The X meets far more advanced crash regulations, it will be crash rated considerably higher. Even more important to us, structurally it's light years better than ye old VII-IX. The old one was good structurally, this one is much better, and that's another one of those inherent things that you can't really make up with band-aids.

 

^Cheers, great post.

 

I knew that. I've been following the Evo X for a while now. The idea that I can have the comfort of an Automatic without the drivetrain loss is HIGHLY appealing. Plus all the magazines I have read say that the Super Sport mode on the SST makes it shift way faster than any human can. Additionally the reviewer said that the car downshifted exactly where he would have if he were in control of the car. That means the "high performance mode" must be very aggressive!

PS JWFisher... Nice writeup!!

 

Thanks, Scott!
Take a look at the YouTube vid I posted the URL to.... it has side-by-side video showing an older Evo with a manual transmission and the new one w/SST on the same section of the track. Amazing. Then they show it on a dry skidpad - and then a wet. Amazing again...

 

Can we vote jwfisher's post on 5spd MT vs SST as post of the year?