are you serious ? even on yo parts... arc is expensive lol.... you will maybe see their 1500 intercooler for 1350 or so, still 2x the amount as ams


and to the other guy, i guess we will just disagree, because you may know what you are talking about, from your side, not the middle.

 

i was just showing an example not to be taken literally just an example.

 

might need to find something else to use.... they are cheap, but nowhere near that cheap. Im doing an entire engine build thru them minus a few parts that they dont carry or i get cheaper elsewhere, and im saving maybe 300 or so if i had gone thru and bought the parts individually from everywhere else. Im talking about doing an entire head, bottom end, turbo etc....

 

I just don't think this protectionist attitude is really going to succeed the way the vendors here would like to think it will. With the introduction of the Internet, the small-time local guys took a hit, because rather than being forced to purchase just from them, I now have my choice of any top-level vendors in the US and the world. I don't see ANY of these vendors who sell stuff on their website doing their best to make sure that the appropriate amount of the funds being spent on mods gets plowed back into the locals. AMS didn't chastise me for buying their IC rather than going over to the plaza and purchasing from the guy who runs a small storefront and garage, or from the fabricator who welds up ICs on his own. But now that there's a bigger fish than them on up the food chain, they and others are going to cry foul.

Take a look at Tire Rack - my local tire stores run commercials on the radio all the time trying to make the claim that you won't get the customer service out of "those Internet mega-tire stores". But some of the local tire guys realize it's pointless to try to dissuade every customer from purchasing from Tire Rack, so they signed up as installers FOR Tire Rack. I've had local tire guys get pissed with me when I quote prices from Tire Rack and they can't come within $20-$40 of the price... per tire. Are we going to band together and toss Tire Rack off as well? Of course we aren't (at least we better not, dammit! )

Who can afford to subsidize the enthusiast market more so than we already do? Sweet Jesus, the amount of money a lot of enthusiasts dump into this arena is staggering. And yet everyone is hanging on by their fingernails. I'm not buying any of the apocalypse talk - this is just the growing pains of the market. If it's bad, it'll fade away. If it's good, it'll stick around and grow. But there's no sense tossing your money away trying to put off the inevitable.

I'm not angry at anyone (certainly not EvoM - it's their board), but I'm disappointed that people (i.e. vendors) really believe they can tell us how to spend our money.

 

well said EJ...

that is exactly my yoparts side lol

i just have the ams side in me as well.... both sides can make wonderful arguments, in the end, its the board decision and what benefits them the most also as they arent going to lose business either

 

bigric09 - I just think everyone should be free to use the criteria they feel are important. If someone is going to install a part themselves and need to focus on price, so be it. If someone wants expert installation help and wants to purchase from a shop that will do the install, go for it. But let each person decide what's best for them. My car is probably one of the biggest mish-mashes of parts from different manufacturers and vendors, but what I love about it is I made almost all of the decisions. I'm not a big fan of the FCC telling me what I can and can't listen too, either. I'm all about the choice, man.

 

im FCC licensed ... watch it !!

but i agree... i have a mix match of stuff on my car as well.... buschur, ams, cbrd etc...

i think in the end, the strongest companies will survive... but dont tell me what those companies are, let me find out, let me read, let me see some testimonials.

I think the decision that was made however was the right one... for the reasons it was made.

 

maybe the manufacturers are overpriced? Has anyone thought about that?

I have so many thoughts going through my head right now I have a headache!

 

How about this scenario:

1. YoParts is allowed to thrive.
2. Vendors like AMS, Buschur, etc. who mark up their products don't adjust their gameplan, can't cut it with wholesale prices that YoParts is offering, and go out of business.
3. New wholesale vendors like YoParts come into the scene. Provides different subscription plans, offer more choice to the consumer.
4. New service shops who can also sell products at wholesale WHILE being smart enough to make profit come into the scene.

The end result is you now have a new market with new vendors, but they all essentially play the same role, except now all the prices are lower. It may not be AMS anymore, but SOMEONE will figure out how to provide quality service while selling products at wholesale prices.

This is how I see the free market working and adjusting itself for the consumer in the long run, without intervention from those who see the need to direct it otherwise.

Of course this is all assuming that I don't give a sh*t about AMS's livelihood.

 

so I guess all the upcoming vendors should just buy from yoparts then?

AMS wasnt so much speaking for themselves, they were speaking for people like me. I'm 23 year olds, just bought my first house, i'm engaged with a baby on the way. I've had 3 evos, blown a motor, tranny and t case. I've had a built evo, stock evo, race gas, meth, pump, etc... I've tuned evos, crashed evos, raced evos, took one to 194 mph, and i've broken everything!!! I've learned alot and I have alot to offer the evo community. I also was pretty much the MAIN frontman of a very successful import shop for 4.5 years. SO now I'm opening my own sales business. Am I looking to become a millionaire? Hell no, but I love the industry and its what I've been doing for years, its all I know. i'd like to clarify 2 more things too:

1. Yo parts is not like costco. If it was, you'd need to buy things in bulk AND the memebership fee would be like 1000$ at the least so it took awhile to make up the initial investment. Costco is 40$ a year with each thing costing under 50$ on average. YoParts is 100$ a year and each part averages over 200$ and thats on the small side. The savings at costco take awhile to pay off.

2. People still think there is a massive markup on parts. Newsflash, there isnt. Just for example, most people pay high 1200's for twins (shops that is) Aroun 1280 to be exact. SO 1280 is cost right. They sell for 1399-1495. Lets go in the middle of 1450. Take out 3% for CC fees so now its 1406$. Ship it for about 20$ now its 1386$ remember we paid 1280$ now we made 106$ ??? thats about 7% profit. Seems that people think shops make hundreds of dollars on parts. Its simply not the case.

 

This would not turn out the way you think it would. You're neglecting the manufacturers' role in the scenario entirely. They will make the margins that they want no matter what... they will raise their pricing which will cause the "wholesale pricing" to rise. Now you have new vendors... and essentially the same pricing. There is a limit to how low pricing will go.

For #4 in your post... it's not a matter of being smart. How can you make a profit that will keep a business alive with margins of 5% or lower? If someone is able to do that, I will gladly buy any book they write explaining their business tactics. Businesses need money to survive, develop, and flourish. The market for this hobby is no different from any other in this aspect.

 

If YoParts wants to do this sort of thing and really save you guys money, they should be doing a online wholesale Nike/Adidas/Puma shoe buyers club. Everyone of us pays full retail for shoes with probably a 100-300% mark up and noone says a damn thing about it. Since the pricing structure is so heavily guarded and regulated by the shoe manufactures, cost and mark-up isnt even though of. People don't walk thru Foot Locker and think "Man I wonder if I can find these cheaper online?" Guess what? You can't and the shoe stores freakin love it! Meanwhile, Guys like Steve try to save their last 5-15% margin to hang on for dear life and they get flamed all to hell and back for it.

In the end, all this is ultimately controlled by the manufactures. They have done an extremly poor job at pricing policy which has led us to where we are today, arguing about fighting to make ANYTHING on parts. If they had done things differently over the past 3 decades, paying full retail with the occasional sale would have been the norm. Like someone said earlier, once Summit and likes started that trend and it was allowed to continue, we all knew at some point it would come down to this.

I certainly don't blame ANY of you guys for wanting to buy things as cheap as possible. Your only trying to save yourselves money and thats perfectly admirable. This is a hobby thats terribly expensive, time consuming, and has poor returns on your money. I know this from experience, as most of you guys do too.

As long as you guys continue to support the shops that research, develop, race, and push the envelope with the type of car you own, you will be helping with the continued growth of our community.

 

Agreed - AMS is not the focus of this issue. I believe they get the lion's share of attention here because they a) are the most recognizable of the vendors mentioned in the unmentionable thread, and b) have been the most candid with their viewpoint.

The up & coming vendors should do whatever it is they need to in order to be whatever they want to be. Scammer? Pioneer? Volume leader? Expert? Popular? Choose your path, but don't hold it against everyone when they choose theirs.

Several times I've read posts mentioning the sweat and determination that is put into efforts, or meager standards of living, or other life credentials. That's fine, and I'm willing to assume the claims are true, but don't you think there are those same credentials on the other side of the counter? The arguments that are given in support of the one side can apply equally to the other. That whole angle is meaningless for this discussion. Since I've been on the board, I've learned at least one thing: Reputation and recognition are at the whim of the community. The scammers are outed pretty quickly, the competent gain a following, and the achievers get noticed. It's mostly given in fair proportion to the effort put in, but sometimes not.

 

ok your right about the reputation part of it. BUT you know what happens with YoParts selling parts like that? The reputation for parts goes down. Parts lose their value and next thing you know every single person wants a tial 38mm gate for 168$ when 215$ shipped is an AWESOME price to pay. Like its been said before, once a business or businesses like YoParts control the market, then its a mess. Because manufacturers will raise their prices at a higher rate then they have been already. Exedy has bene raising their prices annualy, along with precision, AEM, HKS, etc...

The whole market just sucks when people ***** parts out and IDK why no one can agree to that.

let me give yet another example:

If people started whoring out sneakers (someone else already brought this up) then footaction, foot locker, champ usa, etc... would eventually go under. SO what happens when you bought a pair of cheap kicks from me in my bedroom and one is defected??? I blow you off most likely, or it doesnt ever get handled like it would in a store. I wish import stores were like sneaker stores and strictly enforced. See sneaker stores dont ever give **** away because they all sell **** for the SAME price leaving no where to get **** for nothing, but they also offer the best customer service in comparison to someone selling from their bedroom.




I guess this will go on and on and on and on and on because some people just dont want to believe that these shops arent owned by millionaires. Is David Buschur driving a Lamborghini??? Martin's driving a F430? NOOOO they're not, cuz they're not rich. OWNING AN IMPORT SHOP IS NOT A GET RICH QUICK SCHEME AND YOPARTS WAS MAKING IT THAT.

The same guys that support YoParts are the SAME guys that buy a EBC on ebay and then call ME me for directions, advice, tech support, how to mount it, etc... Or if they're not the same guys, they're related.

Then you have the guys that as long as they feel like they got a better price then most other places, they're happy. They're happy because you spent 20 minutes on the phone helping them size a turbo, injectors, intercooler or really determining if their street car needed 800whp from 7k on, or 500whp from 5k on, or maybe 400whp from 4k on. I like those guys but they are far and few between...

 

I will basically be rephrasing pretty much everything that has been said all the posts but much shorter:

Point #1- Some of you are getting a wrong idea that EvoM and the vendors are trying to keep the small vendors alive,whom that takes a lot of money from you because they operate inefficiently. This is NOT what EvoM and the vendors are trying to do.

Point #2 - Although it has not become a fact yet, these type of business models aren't exactly new and they have general trend of destroying the market, so EvoM is taking a defensive measure incase YO parts are the ones to do so. Those type of businesses generally gain profits by eating away the quality of the products, slowing down the technology and development, and by cleanign up big chunk of competition, general price goes up. This is all long term issue, so the consumers will not see too well since they're too blinded by the attractive prices.

I think children's toys are great examples. Not really an example of the type of business, but example of price war. Other that few popular electronic toys and gaming consoles, the quality of the products are just unbelievably crap compared to 15-20 years ago. Flimsy bits, terrible fit and finish, cheap looking packaging, now they are even having trouble with safety. Once you buy them, they don't last too long. Most of the toys I kept since I was young still last until now. If you compare the ideas and functions of regular toys to electronic ones, they are ancient, thanks to heavy cost cutting, not many were able to do any research & development.

Maybe EvoM made a mistake with their action on a controversial vendor, only time will tell by seeing how long sucessful/unsucessful YO is, but from seeing the behavior after receiving request for removal, I highly doubt EvoM made the wrong choice.